ELECTION 08: AYN I RAND, (AMA)I RAND SO FAR AWAY!!!

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Goosehead		#2601	[-]
Posts: 1125 (10/06/08 2:57 PM) Registered User More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	AllMenAreIslands wrote: Goosehead wrote: I suppose that the stock-market dropping doesn't necessarily mean the bailout will be unsuccessful. I would assume that it will take a bit of time for banks, et al, to start lending again, non? There was more hope when there was a chance the bailout would be voted down, do you realize that? The bailout just added MORE debt to an already overloaded cart. But I'll add this: the stock market needed to drop no matter what. It was overly high on credit expansion and it needed to correct. It's not the end of the world if it drops another 5000 points. Don't panic. Read upon economics of the free market. _______________________________________________________________________ Trust me, I've read up a hell of a lot on free markets. I know that they are the most efficient way to produce wealth, but I also know that they produce wealth in an incredibly disparate manner, and while they may take care of their booms and busts in the long-term, it's the poor that get fucked by them in the short term (over and over again, doomed to repeat in perpetuity). AMAI, you're keen to recommend others read literature on laissez-fair economics, have you ever read any more left-wing/Keynsian economic tracts? And I mean read them open to the possiblity that they main contain at least a modicum of economic wisdom?
Gregoire		#2602	[-]
Posts: 29649 (10/06/08 3:00 PM) Registered user More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	McCain rarely wears a flag pin. Didn't wear one in the first debate McCain hates America so much that he couldn't even be bothered to be born here. When he doesn't wear a flag pin, it's because he's a maverick. Maverick, maverick, maverick. When he forgets words and looks a little confused, it's because he's a maverick. Obama hates America because he won't talk about wearing flag pins. He wants to talk about about the economy and Afghanistan. Afghanistan. Not even Amer'ca. Now there's a Muslin for you.
Veelicious		#2603	[-]
Posts: 799 (10/06/08 3:00 PM) More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Cotton blend motherfucker.
Veelicious		#2604	[-]
Posts: 800 (10/06/08 3:04 PM) More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I think it's time for a new McCain nickname - his name is a virtual template for them and I'm tired of McBush and McSame. PissStain McCain John McDuck McPalin'sbitch? McNowhere?
youfist		#2605	[-]
Posts: 931 (10/06/08 3:05 PM) More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Gregoire wrote: McCain rarely wears a flag pin. Didn't wear one in the first debate McCain hates America so much that he couldn't even be bothered to be born here. When he doesn't wear a flag pin, it's because he's a maverick. Maverick, maverick, maverick. When he forgets words and looks a little confused, it's because he's a maverick. Obama hates America because he won't talk about wearing flag pins. He wants to talk about about the economy and Afghanistan. Afghanistan. Not even Amer'ca. Now there's a Muslin for you. Obama thought about the Military...McCain lived it. Obama is a carpet-bagging snake oil salesman and you don't question... 1. his lack of experience 2. his questionable judgement with his pals 3. his mysterious move to Chitown...to a prodominantly black neighborhood...to attend a 10,000 strong black liberation church...and got all their votes...cause he is black...putting him in the Senate...where he voted 'present' 145 times none of that matters to you
AllMenAreIslands		#2606	[-]
Posts: 24640 (10/06/08 3:06 PM) Registered user More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Visa Declined wrote: AllMenAreIslands wrote: But I'll add this: the stock market needed to drop no matter what. It was overly high on credit expansion and it needed to correct. The bailout will allow this drop to occur more slowly. The fear was that otherwise healthy companies would be driven out of business by an irrational market. Markets work in the long term, not so much in the short term. Hmm. Not really. The government is too afraid of the "contraction" part of how the market works. Any fall in prices is greeted with dismay all out of proportion. What the bailout has done is twofold. A. It sets up a precedent of bailouts. What happens next time? B. It makes the coming crash that much worse. It'd be different if there were actually $700 bn just laying around in readies. But there isn't!!! They will have to resort to printing money and that will cause greater problems than if they had allowed the market to work out how to save itself. The government tries to achieve a certain result, and not only do they not achieve it, but they throw more things out of whack to boot. It's not government's job to "create jobs" or "save idiots from themselves."
Veelicious		#2607	[-]
Posts: 801 (10/06/08 3:07 PM) More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	What was mysterious about his move to Chicago? What does carpetbagging mean in your world?
Gregoire		#2608	[-]
Posts: 29650 (10/06/08 3:07 PM) Registered user More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Obama thought about the Military...McCain lived it. God, could you please punch at your chest a little louder please? I now see that you are entirely without substance. There is nothing 'mysterious' about moving to Chicago. He has questionable judgement about one, maybe two 'pals'. (Only Wright is both 'questionable' and a 'pal' to me.) So what's McCain's excuse? Last Edited By: Gregoire 10/06/08 3:10 PM. Edited 2 times.
AllMenAreIslands		#2609	[-]
Posts: 24641 (10/06/08 3:08 PM) Registered user More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Goosehead wrote: AllMenAreIslands wrote: Goosehead wrote: I suppose that the stock-market dropping doesn't necessarily mean the bailout will be unsuccessful. I would assume that it will take a bit of time for banks, et al, to start lending again, non? There was more hope when there was a chance the bailout would be voted down, do you realize that? The bailout just added MORE debt to an already overloaded cart. But I'll add this: the stock market needed to drop no matter what. It was overly high on credit expansion and it needed to correct. It's not the end of the world if it drops another 5000 points. Don't panic. Read upon economics of the free market. _______________________________________________________________________ Trust me, I've read up a hell of a lot on free markets. I know that they are the most efficient way to produce wealth, but I also know that they produce wealth in an incredibly disparate manner, and while they may take care of their booms and busts in the long-term, it's the poor that get fucked by them in the short term (over and over again, doomed to repeat in perpetuity). AMAI, you're keen to recommend others read literature on laissez-fair economics, have you ever read any more left-wing/Keynsian economic tracts? And I mean read them open to the possiblity that they main contain at least a modicum of economic wisdom? Show me one "left-wing" economic text that does not involve coercion in order to achieve its stated purposes, and I'll read it. Goose, please. The "poor" are not getting fucked by the hobbled free market, they have TVs and plentiful food and cars and clothes. You want to see "poor" then go back a few hundred years. If people are getting fucked by the market today, remember it's a market with government intervention trying to make the market behave in a certain way, rather than in its proper uncoerced way. Last Edited By: AllMenAreIslands 10/06/08 3:10 PM. Edited 1 times.
Link Please		#2610	[-]
Posts: 905 (10/06/08 3:13 PM) More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Gregoire wrote: There is nothing 'mysterious' about moving to Chicago. Maybe it's not mysterious, but it does show poor judgment.
HaveyMilktoast		#2611	[-]
Posts: 9429 (10/06/08 3:13 PM) Registered User More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Obama is a carpet-bagging snake oil salesman and you don't question... 1. his lack of experience ( McCain has only run his mouth.......without his wife's money he would be just another banker buddy wantabe) 2. his questionable judgement with his pals (like McCain's crony's and advisers are saints?) 3. his mysterious move to Chitown...to a prodominantly black neighborhood...to attend a 10,000 strong black liberation church...and got all their votes...cause he is black...putting him in the Senate...where he voted 'present' 145 times (insert Kieting five comment here) none of that matters to you ( reference to glass houses fits well here) I"M BACK Last Edited By: HaveyMilktoast 10/06/08 3:16 PM. Edited 1 times.
Veelicious		#2612	[-]
Posts: 802 (10/06/08 3:14 PM) More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Link Please wrote: Gregoire wrote: There is nothing 'mysterious' about moving to Chicago. Maybe it's not mysterious, but it does show poor judgment. In what way?
Goosehead		#2613	[-]
Posts: 1126 (10/06/08 3:14 PM) Registered User More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	AllMenAreIslands wrote: Goosehead wrote: AllMenAreIslands wrote: Goosehead wrote: I suppose that the stock-market dropping doesn't necessarily mean the bailout will be unsuccessful. I would assume that it will take a bit of time for banks, et al, to start lending again, non? There was more hope when there was a chance the bailout would be voted down, do you realize that? The bailout just added MORE debt to an already overloaded cart. But I'll add this: the stock market needed to drop no matter what. It was overly high on credit expansion and it needed to correct. It's not the end of the world if it drops another 5000 points. Don't panic. Read upon economics of the free market. _______________________________________________________________________ Trust me, I've read up a hell of a lot on free markets. I know that they are the most efficient way to produce wealth, but I also know that they produce wealth in an incredibly disparate manner, and while they may take care of their booms and busts in the long-term, it's the poor that get fucked by them in the short term (over and over again, doomed to repeat in perpetuity). AMAI, you're keen to recommend others read literature on laissez-fair economics, have you ever read any more left-wing/Keynsian economic tracts? And I mean read them open to the possiblity that they main contain at least a modicum of economic wisdom? Show me one "left-wing" economic text that does not involve coercion in order to achieve its stated purposes, and I'll read it. _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Oh, I see. So it's 'coercion' that you oppose at all costs, and you just assume that the economics will work out for the greater good. My mistake, I thought we were arguing about macro-economic policy, but if you haven't read anyone but Smith, Friedman, and Hayak, I guess there's no room for a debate.
buckitex		#2614	[-]
Posts: 54 (10/06/08 3:18 PM) More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	McCain was in the military because he came from a military family and most likely he was herded into the Naval Acadamy to "keep the tradition". Now while I honor the service of every member of our military, I do not think this automatically qualifies you to be a leader of the country. I worked within a major USAF command for three years, and while there were some genuine examples of leadership at the General level, for the most part the biggest debate was what flavor cake to order for this friday's bday/staff party.
AllMenAreIslands		#2615	[-]
Posts: 24642 (10/06/08 3:18 PM) Registered user More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Goosehead wrote: Oh, I see. So it's 'coercion' that you oppose at all costs, and you just assume that the economics will work out for the greater good. My mistake, I thought we arguing about macro-economic policy, but if you haven't read anyone but Smith, Friedman, and Hayak, I guess there's no room for a debate. I haven't only read those three. I simply see no point in wasting time on economists whose premise requires the coerced contributions from anybody. I think coercion (especially in an alleged civilized country) is anti-rational, barbaric and out-of-date. Have you read Frederic Bastiat's volume called "The Law"? It gives a good grounding in the purpose of government. Check out Financial Sense dot com. They have some great contributors too, well-schooled in laissez-faire capitalism and how it actually works.
memyselfandi		#2616	[-]
Posts: 16100 (10/06/08 3:19 PM) Registered user More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Goosehead wrote: I suppose that the stock-market dropping doesn't necessarily mean the bailout will be unsuccessful. I would assume that it will take a bit of time for banks, et al, to start lending again, non? I'm beginning to feel like the U.S. Treasury tricked Congress and the American people into thinking the bailout would help their investments in the stock market when in reality the only entity that is really benefiting from the bailout right now is the U.S. Treasury Department (and JP Morgan Chase and Goldman Sachs whose books will be cleared of many of their bad loans and worthless debt by Uncle Sam) as so many people freak out and pull all their money out of stocks and banks and put it in U.S. treasury bills, notes, bonds, etc... I mean if you look at things pretty much everything is down except U.S. treasuries. I'd imagine maybe some of the wealth is getting moved to off-shore tax havens in advance of a likely Barack Obama presidency by the Dick Cheneys of the world who have made so much money profiting off the Iraq War and already have off-shore tax accounts. But with the wealth that is being directed from the stock market toward the treasury, our government needs to do something MORE than just buy worthless shit from JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs. I think the only way out of this mess is some sort of New Dealish programs where the government, at least for a while, has a role in generating wealth in a way that does not generate so much debt.
AllMenAreIslands		#2617	[-]
Posts: 24643 (10/06/08 3:22 PM) Registered user More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	memyselfandi wrote: I think the only way out of this mess is some sort of New Dealish programs where the government, at least for a while, has a role in generating wealth in a way that does not generate so much debt. Yeah. It's called Getting The Fuck Out Of The Economy and letting the productive members get on with their jobs. Government has tried unsuccessfully for decades to "create jobs." They stink at it. It's also not the purpose of government. Hmmm. How 'bout it? You want things to be better? Next time they want a bailout (and there will be a next time), tell your Representatives to vote NAY.
Vegazguy		#2618	[-]
Posts: 14152 (10/06/08 3:24 PM) whatever. More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Visa Declined wrote: TobaccoRhoda wrote: We should have a contest to design a new flag for our brave new world. Something with liberals rampant perhaps? This will do nicely. Its been conservatives who have forgotten its meaning. big red motherfuckin' ecks.
Link Please		#2619	[-]
Posts: 906 (10/06/08 3:25 PM) More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Veelicious wrote: Link Please wrote: Gregoire wrote: There is nothing 'mysterious' about moving to Chicago. Maybe it's not mysterious, but it does show poor judgment. In what way? Have you ever been to Chicago?
Veelicious		#2620	[-]
Posts: 805 (10/06/08 3:27 PM) More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Yes - I work there when I'm not in New York. I have a house in the burbs.

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ELECTION 08: AYN I RAND, (AMA)I RAND SO FAR AWAY!!!