| Started By | Comment | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Riliss |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I think you're shortchanging Survivor's audience - there's a difference between cynicism and EDITED negativity.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
James Barber |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Riliss wrote:I'm not trying to shortchange the viewers, but I do think the show shortchanges them. There's been too many seasons of lazy editing, attempts at "gotcha" winners instead of telling stories to explain why a player won, and bending and twisting an edit to favor the person the show sees as a star. I don't have any doubt that Randy is a pretty complex player. I don't think he's said anything that negative. I just think his edit has, at least so far, boxed him into a very tight corner. |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Riliss |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
See, when I see an edit like Randy's, I don't think negative, I think man of the people. Because all those snarky things my buddies and I say as we
watch the show? People like Randy, Penner, and Chris are saying them. GC is worthless and the editing has absolutely supported this position. Similarly,
Gillian was worthless and never was another side of her presented - even her positive attitude confessionals were contrasted with other tribe members
mitigating her usefulness.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
JosephBlowinsky |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
James Barber wrote:I was wondering the same thing .. the episode was entitled "She Obviously Is Post-Op!" Who would be making that statement and whom would they be making it about within the context of this episode? |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Riliss |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
It was pretty obviously cut out of the confessional whoever had during the challenge about Crystal's domination.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
James Barber |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
People like Randy, Penner, and Chris are saying themI sort of think the show expected us to hate Jonathan (I'm not sure about Chris, although Jeff hated him). I'm just waiting to see more from Randy's edit outside of his pessimistic narrator role. They must be planning some surprises later on because some of their descriptions for this group pre-season haven't quite matched their on-air portrayals. |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jedijake |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
One thing's for sure that nobody can disagree.
While Marcus is probably still the front runner and Charlie looks good too, Corinne has probably the best start of any female in a LONG time, possibly in Survivor history. She's probably gotten a much better start than even Cirie and Parvati did last season-ESPECIALLY if you consider last week to be one big episode. Corrinne was the #2 pick last week and this week I'd put her as the one in the driver's seat to win. |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
7Sages |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
guatemala fanfic wrote: I think it could be possible the edit was to make him negative. It might also be possible that they're using the incident to showcase some tension between Randy and GC that will develop later though versus trying to make either 1 of them look bad. GC and Randy had some conflict in the big episode 1 over boiling water too. So I feel they're building up a story and the previews make me think that it involves GC and Randy |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RageBot |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
My winner picks after watching the episode for the first time:
1. Corinne 2. Marcus (gap) 3. Randy 4. Charlie (gap) 5. Crystal Gonna post ratings after second watching the episode. |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kitty Pryde1 |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
7Sages wrote: The tribe is running out of food and Randy suggests they cut back on their meals...so GC bitches about how it's not fair that he be punished because someone else threw out rice early on...after everyone else agrees with Randy...and then he proceeds to confront Randy about whether or not he's the leader. |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
dennydoylelives |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Ep. 3
Ace - OTTN4. Simplistic portrayal of an arrogant player being played like a fiddle. Also, when talking to Sugar about "our" idol, my first thought ran to Smeagol approaching Deagol after he found the precious. Maybe it's the fake accent.
Bob - MOR2. Pretty much a prototype MOR episode. Enough substance and game play to avoid a UTR, but not enough for a CP.
Charlie - UTR2. He's not eliminated by edgic guidelines, but he's nowhere near my radar for the winner.
Corinne - CP5. I'm really looking forward to the evil turning on, because so far she seems like an ideal character. I've moved her up to number 2 on my winner list, because she does have the second best edit. And if she does become the heir apparent to my second favorite character ever, (Jerri), this is going to be a fun season.
Jacquie - INV. Eliminated before TC1 anyway.
Kelly - UTR1. I think she's blonde.
Marcus - MOR3. Cool down to put him into the background, and just enough to make people remember him. He'll probably be my #1 winner choice until he's voted out or has a string of INV. I wouldn't put too much stock into the fake tear. He's playing Ace, and the editors want the observant members of the audience to know it.
Paloma - MORN4. Even though I was rooting for her to win out for the night, she was portrayed fairly negatively. They sure did hammer home her dislike of Ace.
Sugar - OTTP5. What a wonderful character. I can't blame Ace for having a thing for her. This was really bordering on PP, and I wouldn't argue too strenuously against anyone who thought she deserved one.
Crystal - MORP2. The reward challenge definitely pulls her out of UTR and neutral.
Dan - UTR1. He was there. He even said something. It was pretty boring. Is his real name Nick?
GC - MORN2. What a shitty competitor. Way to give up in yet another challenge. There's a temptation to go OTTN for him, but the rest of his edit was MOR.
Ken - UTRP1. What a likable kid.
Matty - UTR1. See Dan.
Randy - CP3. He's really reminding me of Chris, and because of that, he's winner pick #3. Not that I think he'll realistically pull it out, but I think he should have some sort of percentage on the winner chart.
Susie - INV.
Eliminated after TC1 - Jacque, Kelly, Gillian, Michelle, Susie.
TC3 - Dan, GC, Matty
TC2 - Marcus, Bob, Randy TC3 - Marcus, Corrine, Randy
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
7Sages |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kitty Pryde1 wrote: The thing is though they gave him so much airtime in the first episode and made him complex. If they wanted to turn him into a villain they could've just left out all the other positive parts they gave him or cut down his airtime like a lot of the others. Since they didn't do that I don't know if they're just trying to make him negative |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
TheLurkerSpeaks |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I watched the episode relying on subtitles because my wife wasn't ready to leave the gym - I guess that's better than missing it however.
Kota Marcus - MOR(N). He was there, though mostly in the background. The thing that stood out the most was his making fun of Paloma at TC, which struck me as pretty negative. Cooldown is actually pretty good for him as other distractions are focused on. Charlie - UTR. I didn't notice him this episode at all, which is a cooldown he probably needed, but it might be a bit extreme. Corinne - MORN. The splicing of her conversation with Bob with her confessionals confirming they were planning to use him and dump him came off very negative to me. Tone's tricky without sound, however. Still, she was in need of characterization so this doesn't bode poorly for her. Jacquie - UTR. She was not noticeable at all. Kelly - UTR. I gather she was the other vote for Ace, but I still got nothing from her this episode. Sugar - CPP. Possibly tending toward OTTP, which is probably where she's headed, but she did get considerable character building this episode. Ace - OTTN. He's definitely the early villain of the season, who we'll be cheering the fall of, probably about merge. Bob - MOR. He's involved in a lot of the strategy discussions, but do we know what he thinks yet? Paloma - MORN. Her ouster isn't much of a surprise, and opposing Ace isn't enough to overcome her own negativity. Fang Crystal - MORP. When Jeff singles you out after a challenge for being emotionally vested in the win, that's a positive thing - hence the P. Still, challenge domination was her entire edit this episode. Randy - MORN. He's still grumpy and negative, though I like him better than GC. GC - OTTN. He starts fights at camp, and he quits in challenges. He's the "cancer" of the tribe, and there's no editing to dispute it. Dan - MOR. He basically narrated the Randy - GC dispute. Ken - UTR. He was another challenge hero though he didn't get the P treatment Crystal did. Susie - UTR. She's just a supporting character, used only when needed. Matty - UTR. I didn't really notice him this week, which may push him from dark horse to irrelevant. So by edit: Too little visibility - Jacquie, Kelly, Susie, Matty. None of these players stand out or are that important to the story being told. Too much positivity - Sugar, Bob. We'll feel bad for them when they get voted out, but there's no way they are winning. Too much negativity - GC, Ace. On the other hand, these boots will be audience pleasers. Probably distractions, but still weak possibilities - Charlie, Randy. I don't really care Edgically for the way these two seem to dominate airtime when they are shown. I won't entirely rule them out, but the odds are against them. Weak, but still Edgically possible - Dan. I think his first episode visibility left a lot to be desired, and he was shown a bit foolish in not finding the idol. Still, he's not been ignored. Still well-placed, but edit may be too bland - Crystal. The editing is never going to forget about her, but that's more about marketing the show than her chances on it. She needs to get some movement out of MOR occasionally to improve her position Edgically. Dark horse - Ken. He got some nice attention in the opener, became a target without much to worry about in the follow up, and then was a challenge hero without overwhelming focus last night. He'll need some further game development soon, but a switch provides a perfect opportunity for that. Rising contender - Corinne. So the big question is who is the distraction for who? Is Corinne the distraction for Marcus or vice versa? Corinne got the better episode this time around - presence, strategic confessionals, and even a little tone (though not too much). I'd feel better if she had gotten a bit more in the first episode though. Slipping leader - Marcus. He came off a bit arrogant to me in his dismissal of Paloma, which isn't the kiss of death but isn't really good either. If Marcus is the unquestioned leader with primarily negative tone, he probably can't win, and that would allow a subordinate like Corinne to slip past him. Overall, that's just nitpicking - he's clearly the favorite as things stand. |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kitty Pryde1 |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Rewatching the Episode:
FANG: Crystal-MOR2 (A couple confessionals, but not enough to be positive overall.) Dan-MOR1 (I thought he was MOR rather than UTR because his one confessional related to his feelings about the tribe and seemed more complex than that or Matty.) GC-MORN2 (Definitely N. He was made to look horrible in this episode because of his laziness and the fact that he basically doesn't care about the rest of his tribe.) Ken-INV1 (He had his moment to shine at the immunity challenge, yeah, but he had absolutely nothing else in the entire episode.) Matty-UTR1 (Just enough to keep him from being INV.) Randy-MORN3 (He was curmudgeon-y, and this time, he wasn't being reinforced. Sure, he was right about GC, but he was talking about his tribe's stupidity and how much they sucked, only to win two challenges.) Susie-INV1 (Nothing at all for Susie.) KOTA: Ace-CPN4 (I thought CP rather than OTT because he seemed to be complex in his plans and how he orchestrated them.) Bob-MOR2 (He talked to Corinne and discussed strategy, but not much else.) Charlie-MOR2 (Same thing as Bob.) Corinne-CP4 (I went for the 4, rather than the 5, because I felt Corinne wasn't shown on the same level as Sugar and was about even with Paloma.) Jacquie-INV1 (Who?) Kelly-UTR1 (Wh-wait. She said a couple lines and was discussed as Paloma's buddy.) Marcus-MOR2 (He had a confessional and got two questions at tribal council.) Paloma-MORM4 (I went with the M because I felt she had some negativity just in her bitchiness, but she had some sweetheart moments too, like her prounce confessional, and in the end, we were supposed to be sorry that she went over Ace.) Sugar-CPP5 (Definitely positive with all that stuff about her dad and her triumphing and finding the idol.) Winners: Marcus: He faded into the background after a good first two episodes and had a nice cooldown. What's more important is what edit you get when your tribe DOESN'T go to tribal council, because in that case, like with two thirds of Kota in episode 2, the editors could easily ignore you. Corinne: This was her big episode, and if a woman is going to win, it's probably going to be Corinne. She has strategy and Charlie, like Marcus last time, reinforced that she's really smart. Charlie: He's in an alliance with my other two winner candidates and he's got a decent enough edit. Plus, he toned down the Marcus love. Randy: If anyone from Fang is winning, it's Randy. He's a narrator, but he's memorable enough. Crystal: I can't eliminate her yet on the basis that her edit hasn't been THAT bad, and she hasn't been forced down our throats like a hero Olympian. Dan: Barely on the list, he's recognizable enough, and I do think he was MOR this episode, so who knows. Matty: Same as Dan, only Matty's just barely clinging to hope. Eliminated: Michelle, Gillian, Paloma: Obvious Ace, Jacquie, Kelly, Ken, Sugar, Susie: INV Bob: Near-INV and too positive. GC: Being made to look like a complete loser. |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kitty Pryde1 |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
And here's my strategy ratings for the week:
Not a whole lot of strategy, if any, on Fang, but when it did show up, it came from Randy and GC being at odds with one another. I gave them both S1-s for making targets of themselves and basically instigating one another. Bob and Charlie both had their brief strategy scenes with Corinne, which gave them S1s. Paloma had her scene, and she did a good job explaining the strategy to keeping herself around (so much so that Corinne repeated it to a positively responding Charlie later on), so I gave her an S1+. Kelly was an S1- for voting outside the group and basically making herself more of a target at TC. Ace I gave an S2= because even though he's slimy and he made a dumb move of revealing his desire to bring Sugar to the end, he backed the right pony, now has an alliance with the idol-holder, and he was in control, and even Bob said it was smart to use the weaker girls for reward and the stronger girls for immunity. Corinne was S2 because even though she was very visible, she was borderline S3, not quite full-on S3. And finally, Sugar was S2+ for searching for, and finding the idol, along with keeping the fact that she has the idol secret from everyone but her closest ally. |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
dennydoylelives |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
craig |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Regarding Matty's visibility - I hope people think through there own impression of his visibility, and exactly what he said and contributed, rather than
just voting Warrior's chart.
What were the 10 sentences he spoke? They didn't register on first viewing. I remember the confessional - bland bit about winning IC (before they lost) He wasn't a presence at TC much. One unmemorable question I recall with brief answer. Warrior, are you giving him 5 points for being asked if he wanted to give up immunity and saying no? Is that really a TC question like the others? That hardly seems worth 5 points. (Yet you cut down Ace's TC question score because he didn't say much) |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AndreSurvivor |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
EPISODE 3
KOTA Ace: OTTN4 As was said before, while he may have been strategic, he was very simplified as extremely arrogant, overconfident and villain-like. If there was anyone watching (either as he plotted Paloma's doom or grinned at TC) that didn't want him to get voted off like something fierce, they may have been blind or just happened to like him. He was one-note. Bob: MOR2 Given his involvement with Corinne, he is being kept in the loop and involved--even if it's as a pawn--but not given any strategic moment of his own. Corinne revealed her whole alliance to him and he had nothing to say? Yikes. At least he isn't P any more. Charlie: MOR2 This is going to be hotly contested; people are jumping from UTR to CP to MOR. While he did comment on tribe dynamics and talked with Corinne, he seemed like the tagalong again. To Corinne: "You're so smart. You're really good at this!" I dunno--his edit ain't been quite right lately. Corinne: CP4 The producers apparently fought even Corinne herself to come on the show--and thank goodness they did. She is one of the strongest female contenders in a long time. She was strategic, having game talks with Charlie, Bob and even Paloma, showing her to be someone people can approach. And after her opening episode comment about being a b*tch, she is playing her game quite well. No N from me. Jacquie: INV1 Wow, editors, way to telegraph she is definitely not winning. Kelly: UTR1 At least with Natalie there was the excuse that the favorites were just more interesting. Poor girl. She is dead in the water, and doesn't seem that bright or aware. Marcus: UTR2 No way is he 3. I wish I didn't always fall for the cool-down episodes, but I didn't think this helped his chances. Oddly enough, they replayed him catching the fish; so that may reveal a need for them to someone insert good moments again and again. Why? UTR for me...not present enough for MOR. Paloma: CP4 She hated Ace, but so did everyone else. She did poorly at the challenge but acknowledged it and successfully put the blame on Ace for choosing her. She had gameplay (though unsuccessful), insight and confessionals. She no longer matter for edgic, so she gets CP from me--she deserves it. So there. ;) Sugar: CPP5 The only thing keeping her from being PP is not having her tribe mates gush about how wonderful she is and how she is a shining beacon of humanity (like they did with Bob). Solid P. FANG Crystal: MORP2 Good challenge performance and even better post-challenge tearful confession about winning to Jeff. It touched me, and I'm a hardened bastard. Dan: UTR1 Maybe he was UTK, too (under the Kotas, as in the reward challenge). He yelled during the challenge and an unmemorable confessional. Too bad. He seems nice. G.C.: MORN3 Clearly N, and if anyone says otherwise, I'm up for a fight. They had a shot of him giving up during the challenge, they had Jeff mentioned it, and they had him be the only person b*tching and moaning about Randy's inquiries regarding meal size. If he wasn't so inconsequential, he might qualify for OTT, and I wouldn't argue with it. Ken: UTRP1 Gamer beats teacher--what a win! Very little to do in the episode, but him jumping into the arms of his teammates was shown, and then shown again right before commercials. Matty: UTR1 Poor guy. I like him when I see him. But it is nice to have a guy get the UTR edit instead of every woman. Randy: CPM3 He is the only Fang member with any insight into the tribe dynamics. And, IMO, his edit isn't N; he is N. So I'm putting M since it definitely wasn't neutral. Susie: INV1 Poor Lydia. Sorry, I mean Denise. Wait--poor Susie. POSSIBLE WINNERS: Marcus, Corinne, Randy
Last Edited By: AndreSurvivor
10/03/08 10:14 AM.
Edited 4 times.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AndreSurvivor |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
craig wrote: It took me two reads to realize you were talking about Marcus, not Matty. Oh, and I agree. I think a 2 vis is the highest he deserves. But he was only higher than Jacquie and Kelly in my book. |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Warrior |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
craig wrote: I don't understand craig. Who are you talking about?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||