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 OnlyTheHunter |
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Posts: 1631 (09/26/08 11:35 AM) Edgician |
TLS, I'm not questioning your rankings, as I agree with nearly everything you said, but you don't give Kelly an INV? In episode 2? I'm surprised
by that. I feel like maybe I missed something. In fact, no INV for Ace in ep 2? Do you not use INV? Sorry, I'm just curious.
Michael |
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craig |
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Posts: 14037 (09/26/08 11:35 AM) Registered User |
Warror, could you do a combined ep.1A and 1B visibility chart, just so we have the data if we want to look at it from that perspective.
For example, Ace might start looking really good, and someone will surely argue "episode 1B isn't really INV because the editors would have distributed his speaking time differently if the episodes weren't back to back." Even if we prefer viewing the episodes as separate for now, to rule out a combined way of viewing them is unduly dogmatic. The editors new about the double episodes for at least a month, well bfore the final edit.
Last Edited By: craig
09/26/08 11:45 AM.
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fat little fingers |
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Posts: 5598 (09/26/08 11:58 AM) Registered User |
The two visibility numbers can be combined, but I don't think the editors did anything other than fuse two episodes together. The structure is designed to
be split for later re-release.
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TheLurkerSpeaks |
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Posts: 1290 (09/26/08 12:03 PM) |
OnlyTheHunter wrote: I don't use INV ratings. I have often argued that there is no real purpose served to the distinction between INV and UTR (even by those who like INV, there is no clear dividing line), and I don't see the point of eliminating someone on the basis of a single episode. In most cases, those who are argued to be invisible in a given episode can be safely eliminated over time anyway. Glad to hear we agree on most everything else. Then again, we generally do except for tone of course. |
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Werwanderflugen |
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Posts: 156 (09/26/08 12:14 PM) Registered user |
Ep1 Ratings (after 2nd rewatch):
Last Edited By: Werwanderflugen
09/26/08 12:18 PM.
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OnlyTheHunter |
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Posts: 1632 (09/26/08 12:39 PM) Edgician |
We agree on a lot, including most Tone, this time, TLS. Give me til tonight to change my mind! :-)
I agree 100% with FLF, these were two distinct episodes. The only thing different was that episode two got about 2.5 to 3.5 extra minutes by my count. Ep 2 was only missing a recap and a theme, otherwise, everything lined up, from the opening night scene to commerical breaks in the exact places. That's my opinion. Track it either way, but I don't feel than Dan, for arguments' sake, was even overall. He was nearly non-existant, then everywhere. That is not a balance. That's two extremes in two epsiodes, both not good for him. Michael - Damn, 18 posts since the ep started and I haven't done ratings yet! Do you think I was ready for Gabon to start or something?!?
Last Edited By: OnlyTheHunter
09/26/08 12:42 PM.
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iluvbbsofun |
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Posts: 627 (09/26/08 12:47 PM) |
Again with Marcus, it was never about him until he decided to form an alliance. He can't be the winner because the editors never made him important until
then.
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chaperone |
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Posts: 2549 (09/26/08 1:26 PM) Registered User |
astroline wrote:I say wait until they get voted out and edit your comment since we now all know there's a spoiler and how it relates to edgic. |
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BlondesAreBetter |
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Posts: 68 (09/26/08 1:43 PM) |
(long-time Edgic lurker, first time poster)
based on the first episode, I'm putting out there that there will be a Marcus versus Ace final 2 with Marcus winning. This is why: 1. Marcus had a solid edit the whole episode, with plenty of end game talk and a positive or a skewed positive edit. On the other hand, they're beginning to build up Ace as the antithesis of Marcus. He also has an end-game-like arch beginning to build, but opposite from Marcus he's getting more of a negative/skewed negative edit and was INV in the second part. As we all know, that means Ace doesn't win, but I still see a solid connection to the end game with him. 2. One of the main reasons why I see such a solid tie to the end with Ace is because everyone in the "onion" alliance speaks of Ace as their biggest threat, however they believe that Ace will dig himself a hole early. In direct contrast you have confident confessionals from Ace where he proclaims that everything is going to plan. The inkling I got from the edit is that the onion alliance will try to dominate, but somehow Ace will overtake them (by getting someone in the onion alliance to betray the rest perhaps?) and Marcus will be one of the only survivors and will come from behind to win. 3. The reason why I think the final 2 (or 3) will include Marcus and Ace is because Survivor has already started a slow build-up of their rivalry. There hasn't been anything obvious to showcase this rivalry but Marcus has been constantly the first person to bring up Ace's name as someone to kick out. That has been shown for a reason. But the alliance as a whole speaks of Ace like it will be simple to vote him out because he will dig himself a hole... it's a bit of overconfidence, and I see this backfiring in their faces with Ace making it to the end. 4. I also believe that this goes along with the "good versus evil" Eden theme of the season. I swear this sounded much more intelligent in my head. 
In conclusion this is my prediction: There will be a Marcus versus Ace final 2, with Marcus winning in the theme of Gabon. Just so I can say that I was the first one to call it months from now if it happens. If you guys want to watch the episode again, you'll notice the subtle beginnings of their rivalry. |
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 AndreSurvivor |
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Posts: 192 (09/26/08 2:13 PM) |
Have yet to make official votes on the episodes, but wanted to give my $0.02...
PART 1 KOTA Ace: CPM4 (negative--but with yoga!) Bob: MORP3 (can you be MORPP?) Charlie: MOR3 (can embarrassing gushing = N?) Corinne: UTRM2 Jacquie: INV1 Kelly: INV1 Marcus: CP3 Paloma: UTR2 (didn't think giggling was N) Sugar: UTR2 (confessionals and energy, but nothing else) FANG Crystal: MOR3 Dan: UTR2 GC: CP4 Gillian: OTTM5 (she got POV but was hella annoying; I'd almost go for N)) Ken: MORP4 (talking about kissing girls, but wasn't involved enough in discussions to get CP, but I wanted to!) Matty: MOR3 (pre-credit glory statement) Michelle: CPN5 (she talked with Ken, at TC and in confessionals; her viewpoint reinforced by Jeff; well-rounded, unsimplified first boot) Randy: MOR4 Susie: UTR1 PART 2 KOTA Ace: INV1 (surprisingly irrelevant) Bob: UTRP1 (Jeff and Onion Alliance likey, but said nothing) Charlie: CPM3 (tone is something here--he gets alliance face time, but they are showing him as a horndog and lovestruck = not good; borderline OTT due to characterization, but he is likely just a big character naturally) Corinne: MOR2 (alliance talk) Jacquie: MOR2 (alliance talk) Kelly: INV1 (is she a Liliana 2 or a Natalie 2?) Marcus: CP3 (a.k.a. the God) Paloma: INV1 Sugar: UTR1 FANG Crystal: CP4 Dan: MOR5 (exile talk; could find idol, but they didn't make fun of him too much about it; I feel like adding P but don't think it works) GC: CPM5 (featured so much) Gillian: MOR4 (bye!) Ken: MOR2 (confessional; not UTR) Matty: MOR3 Randy: CP4 Susie: MOR2 (borderline MOR/UTR, but her Gillian talk sealed this) Note: No UTRs for Fang Part 2 in my ratings. Those with low vis, like Susie and Ken, were involved in important discussions and on the radar. Susie had the one scene where Gillian said Susie was next if she left; and Ken was in Gillian's sights and he had game talk with Crystal. Following the guides lines: "(3) If the player did something that you feel makes them better that UTR, but not enough to qualify for CP, then you rate MOR." That is what I did here, but wouldn't discount UTR. Possible Winners: 1. Marcus 2. Corinne 3. Crystal 4. Ken 5. Jacquie
Last Edited By: AndreSurvivor
09/26/08 2:16 PM.
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EOrlins |
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Posts: 1081 (09/26/08 2:27 PM) Because it's just a stick!!! |
Okay, I have a few comments/questions.
First, I don't think I can fully participate in Edgic this season (at least winner picks) because first of all, I am definitely going to read spoilers this season. I am dying to know what happens and I just know I won't be able to keep myself away from them. Second of all, I think I should disclose biases up front. Charlie is a friend of mine from law school and I recommended him to casting. I had NO idea he had actually been selected until about halfway through filming, and he clearly won't tell me a THING about how he did, but I wanted to disclose my Charlie bias up front! (I LOVE HIM!) Third, I can't believe you're doing the ratings as two separate episodes! I realize they were episode 1 & episode 2 - two boots, reward challenges, etc etc, but I still think the whole thing was the "2 hour premier!" So I would have a really hard time giving Ace an INV when I remember him and lots of things he did & said from last night. Also, did you all know that Jeff is blogging about this season? It's on ew.com and he makes VERY interesting comments which pertain to some of the things people are saying here. I am very careful not to post anything that could be "spoiler-ish" here so I didn't want to post the quote, but there is something in particular about Marcus that I would love for you guys to read and to get your take on, if that's allowed. Finally, and maybe this is my bias coming out, but I love the bro-mance that is developing between Marcus & Charlie and I, too, loved the "there's no two adams here" line. YAY for the new season! xoxo, Eliza |
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Werwanderflugen |
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Posts: 157 (09/26/08 2:39 PM) Registered user |
Hi Eliza! :)
* Ratings for Ep2 (after second rewatch): Kota: Ace-- INV Bob-- UTR1 Charlie-- CP(P?)3 (I see his relationship with Marcus as slightly P, plus the "I'm happier here than normal life!" comment makes me lean a little toward P. But I'll hold off for now) Corinne-- MOR2 (I think her "I've talked to Jacquie" comment makes it clear that the focus of the alliance is Marcus + Charlie. The editors could have shown us Corinne & Jacquie talking, but that was left on the cutting room floor... not a good sign for Corinne, if you ask me) Jacquie-- MOR2 Kelly-- INV :-( Marcus-- CPP3 Paloma-- INV Sugar-- INV Fang: Crystal-- MOR4 (such a presence for having no confessionals... the rewatch has made me put my eye on her a little more) Dan-- CP5 (such a boring CP) GC-- CPM5 (mixed, no doubt about it) Gillian-- MOR4 Ken-- MOR2 Matty-- MOR3 (I've got my eye on him as well. He's nowhere near the top of the winner list, but he intrigues me.) Randy-- CP4 Susie-- MOR2 (debatably UTR, but I think she had enough to garner MOR) Winner List: Tier 1: Marcus Tier 2: Crystal, Corinne, Ken, Charlie Tier 3: Matty, Randy, GC, Dan Slim Chances/Eliminated: Ace, Bob, Jacquie, Kelly, Paloma, Susie |
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colleenlover |
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Posts: 8496 (09/26/08 2:40 PM) Registered User |
oh wow, didn't know that, Eliza. Good for you. I think your friend is going to do very well. Marcus and Charlie have the endgame thing down if you ask
me.
I'm not really doing the edgic thing anymore, but I really think this was clearly two different episodes and was a last minute decision to air them together. Well, a few weeks ago at any rate. Even when Michelle got the boot, there was a crawl to view her final words online which indicates to me, a snip, cut and paste job to two episodes already completed. Note the tone in Gillian's episode one-where it's a tease that she would leave and then a surprise that she stays. Whereas the second half (really episode two) her whole tone is different. |
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Jedijake |
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Posts: 5260 (09/26/08 2:54 PM) MESS member |
One would think that someone as obvious as Marcus would not or could not possibly win.
However, the winner in the past 5 or 6 seasons have been painfully obvious (okay, Parvati wasn't the MOST obvious, but still), so I don't see anyhthing changing now. Since Charlie is Todd redux, I don't see a repeat. The winner is clearly Marcus. If something strange does come down, I'd say that Corinne or Crystal are possible contenders. But only slightly. |
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Francois40 |
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Posts: 2491 (09/26/08 2:56 PM) Registered user |
[Michelle]Rebecca in Cook Islands, another "double boot episode" (if you see this week as such, which I don't really, but kinda...)
Yah, but I remember a certain other guy who liked yoga and did yoga and weird stuff where we were supposed to think he was a weirdo, like waving his hands to make fire...it seems the Eds just like to show yoga, for some reason :) |
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Warrior |
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Posts: 2639 (09/26/08 3:03 PM) Registered User |
craig wrote: Sure...I was wondering myself. 
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Seyz |
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Posts: 221 (09/26/08 3:03 PM) |
EOrlins wrote: Eliza... *dreamy sigh* |
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tmtomhJanet |
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Posts: 247 (09/26/08 3:10 PM) Registered user |
Maybe the editors just threw us girls some eye candy. Ace in his undies was entirely drool-inducing. I loved that scene for the view. Ace was so memorable
in first hour I didn't even realize he disappeared completely in the second. Too bad.
I was thinking about trying to do edjic this year but I don't have the patience to try to take notes during the show or go back and rewatch several times. Last night before I went to sleep I was trying to think of possible ratings. All I could come up with were a couple of INV ones - Kelly, Paloma and probably Sugar. Marcus had some obvious strategy discussions but I'm not sure if he had enough to make him CP. The Probst blog on EW was interesting but I don't think it should be discussed here. It seems most edgicians like to limit discussions to only what was portrayed on the show. |
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Cassidy666 |
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Posts: 8712 (09/26/08 3:15 PM) Registered User |
Thanks for the update on Jeff, Eliza. And yeah, I expect there to be some bias there with Charlie.
He's your friend and obviously we're still going to
talk about him as a character as edited on the show. Should be interesting! Especially with the number of negative comments about him and Marcus on the board
in general. Maybe you can get him to
comment on episodes after they have shown...
Okay, my feelings about the premier (both parts overall) was that Marcus was pushed too hard as the star character. They set up him and Charlie and then with Corinne and Jacque (or however the fuck it's spelled). Maybe he falls later in the game? But then that's what was speculated about Todd as well. Charlie is a really tough one to predict. The way he shot right up Marcus's ass was pretty hard to watch. So are they setting up this twosome as the ones who will take it to the end? Why the strong edit to show Charlie in love with Marcus so to speak? The thing about previous winners was that they didn't suck up to others like Charlie does with Marcus. It's one thing if it's strategy but it's not really edited as such. How does this pay off later? I've been loving Corinne simply going by her pre-show interviews. And the surprising thing is how balanced she's been portrayed in the show. Her first confessional is about how she's going to be a bitch and own her game and then she's commenting on how great Bob is... Then in part 2 she's all game talk in her confessional. Strategy, nice, evil... She's got the different sides covered. It will be very interesting to see how she progresses. She has a decent chance considering how bad the edits for the rest of the women are other than Crystal. For the rest of Kota, Bob's got a fluff edit with potential to grow considering he was talked about by others regarding strategy. Sugar, Ace and Paloma are just dead in terms of edit. Of the onion alliance, only Jacque did not comment directly on the alliance. Instead they gave her a confessional after the challenge about continuing to win... Possible downfall? For Fang, they are a huge mess. No real alliance talk and strategy is scattered all over the place. Randy gets the storyteller edit and his strategy of keeping quiet and letting others go after each other is strongly emphasized by the repetition of it in confessionals and the almost overwhelming number of shots of him just standing there and biting his tongue.
Matty and Crystal have been getting a generally positive edit. But no insight into their long term plans. It's like they target people on a whim. Not really winning edits I think. Ken on the other hand, got a really good story with his relationship with Michelle and then his underdog status within the unpredictable tribe. There's long term potential there. I don't know how to take GC's story. Is it about him struggling within this dysfunctional tribe? Or is he just part of the problem? Time will tell. So the ones who can I think can go far? Marcus, Charlie, Corinne, Bob, Randy, Ken, Crystal, Matty, GC. They have long term potential even though some of them haven't had any long term story arcs planted yet. |
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Oowatanite |
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Posts: 5864 (09/26/08 3:17 PM) Registered User |
TLS ratings :
Michelle- OTTN - She was relentlessly negative about just about everything. Randy- CPN - He was definitely CP, but to me he was complaining a lot in the first half of the episode. 
I'm surprised that Randy is not getting that many N tone ratings. TLS put it perfectly - "he was complaining a lot". |
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