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 Warrior |
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Posts: 2620 (08/01/08 8:36 AM) Registered User |
Hit refresh...
Thanks Craig. Please submit all complaints to our Grand Poopahh. All ratings subject to change on Poopahh's orders. |
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craig |
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Posts: 13599 (08/01/08 8:39 AM) Registered User |
Kitty, that simply isn't the way we've tallied votes since Mixed was introduced.
It's Mixed Neutral (not a vote for having tone). With your proposal we could have 6 CPM, 7 CP Neu, and 3 CPN, and the player would get an N even through 13/16 voters saw them as neutral or balanced. PS: looks good Warrior. Kudos to the editors, only 2 UTR edits among the F17, and one of those was on our winner's list all season and the other had a OTTN5 epsisode.
Last Edited By: craig
08/01/08 8:51 AM.
Edited 1 times.
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 chapera rocks |
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Posts: 9558 (08/01/08 1:51 PM) Registered User |
Regardless of whether or not its been tallied like that in the past, kitty is right, it makes no sense.
Neutral Dynamic =/= Neutral Static, and when it comes to overall tone, they should be counted separately. |
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Kitty Pryde1 |
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Posts: 5145 (08/01/08 3:16 PM) |
Actually Craig, under that system, 9/16 people would see at least a slight negative, and if only 3 people thought is was N, then that player would get an M rating. The way Parvati got her neutral now makes no sense. She gets 9 Ns but 10 neutrals/Ms, which means suddenly she must be neutral/M according to your logic. Then because it was 6 to 4 between neutrals and Ms so you make her neutral? So basically 6 people are deciding against what 13 people thought. The close call should've been between Mixed or Negative, and neutral shouldn't have even been involved. |
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fat little fingers |
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Posts: 5554 (08/01/08 5:32 PM) Registered User |
"Overall tone" has two very good reasons to be given its own thread:
1) It has no value to Edgic whatsoever. 2) The arguments being made are not based on the season's Edgic ratings, but rather on the "feelings" that the voter has about a character at the end of the season. This is a fan process and not an Edgic one. The arguing taking place is between basing the Close Calls on the Edgic tally or the Overall Tone voting tally. I say, stop trying to link it to Edgic and let it stand on its own. In which case, keep it the fan tally that it is. But, with this acknowledgement, let's move it out on its own turf. In the future, someone should start the Overall Tone process in its own thread. That's my opinion. |
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wallduck |
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Posts: 432 (08/02/08 9:40 PM) Registered User |
fat little fingers wrote: Exactly. "Overall tone" is based on the weakest component of all tone ratings: feelings. scepticA wrote: You wrote that frequency of SPV doesn't seem to matter, but that SPV tone often does. Specifically, reinforced and contradicted SPVs matter a lot. Reinforced SPV tone (for example, speaker calls subject lazy and following shot shows subject being lazy) is N for the subject. But contradicted SPV tone (for example, speaker calls subject lazy and following shot shows subject working hard) is N for the speaker. So instead of bothering to count every instance of SPV, it would be better IMO to simply count instances of:
1) SPV tone
2) reinforced SPV tone
3) contradicted SPV tone
The purpose would be to inject some quantifiable measures into the weekly tone ratings--measures based on the editing, to
supplement the tone ratings based on feelings.
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limnThief |
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Posts: 49 (08/05/08 6:11 PM) |
Thanks
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scepticA |
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Posts: 1386 (08/08/08 6:34 PM) Registered User |
fat little fingers wrote: The rest are interesting. But number one is the key. I really haven't bothered with this discussion because it's as interesting to me (from an
edgic perspective) as the color of their swimsuits. Might as well continure it for S16 in this thread, but for S17 onward, how about on the day after the
finale someone create a "final edgic rating" thread?
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astroline |
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Posts: 1275 (08/12/08 1:22 PM) Registered user |
Parvati's win was a huge success for Edgic, regardless of her final tone. She ended up either CP or CPN, and that's awesome either way when you
consider she's a post-ASS female winner. She was the #1 choice after the premiere, the merge, and from there on out until the end. She had cooldown time
but was never completely neglected, even considering the finger injury episode where she was barely an UTR1, but I honestly think the Survivor editors
don't think in terms of UTR1 or INV1, it's both the same thing to them pretty much.
I think we should keep things as they are. This season proved that it can still work that way! |
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craig |
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Posts: 13692 (08/12/08 4:26 PM) Registered User |
If we're gonna to continue with Tone ratings, might as well continue doing Final Ratings in the main thread. Keep edgic all in one place. There is no
reason why final ratings can't be completed in a week or so, rather than the discussion going on all summer.
If Tone matters, Parvati's final tone certainly does, since she's a winner. If the people who think Parv was super negative with 6-8 N episodes are right, then it seems a winner can be as N as can be and still win. But if they were blinded by fandom and anti-pretty girl bias, and Parv's tone was really more balanced, then we can still conclude that future players with genuinely super-N edits are unlikely to win. It appears that certain edgic people's perception of Parvati as highly N (Kitty for example) was an impediment to them correctly picking her as the winner until very late in the season.
Last Edited By: craig
08/12/08 4:30 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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wallduck |
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Posts: 433 (08/13/08 1:09 PM) Registered User |
If the people who think Parv was super negative with 6-8 N episodes are right, then it seems a winner can be as N as can be and still win. But if they were blinded by fandom and anti-pretty girl bias, and Parv's tone was really more balanced, then we can still conclude that future players with genuinely super-N edits are unlikely to win.No one likes to admit to bias, but everyone has it. The essence of good editing in a show like Survivor is that aspects of some characters are edited to activate our biases. Different viewers have different biases, and that's part of what makes the show interesting to viewers: they can argue with their friends about whether so-and-so is a bully or a leader, annoying or authentic. And viewers are naturally most activated by characteristics that strike closest to home and their own personalities. And so to rise above the phenomenon and rate players "objectively" is very difficult. For that reason, I keep making the point that tone-rating would benefit from including a factor that can actually be measured. |
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Kitty Pryde1 |
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Posts: 5332 (08/13/08 2:05 PM) |
If Parvati is given the freaking Jenna edit where she's made to look negative because she's a pretty girl, then that's not bias. The editors gave
her a shitty edit. A winner's edit, but a shitty edit nonetheless. I mean, she was the leader and mastermind of the women's alliance, yet they had
all these clips of her acting like a dumb blonde (I'm aware of her hair color). What the hell is that?
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craig |
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Posts: 13704 (08/13/08 4:35 PM) Registered User |
If Parvati is given the freaking Jenna edit where she's made to look negative because she's a pretty girl, then that's not bias.Back in the day, edgic correctly picked Jenna to win and saw her edit as fairly balanced (2 P, 4 N, MOR overall). I agree that Survivor editing overall is somewhat biased against young girls, but a winner's edit is never unrelentingly negative. And when was Parv ever edited as dumb in Micronesia? |
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JaMalle |
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Posts: 4118 (08/13/08 5:01 PM) Registered User |
Parvati didn't end up negative? rigged. rofl
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BlakeB717 |
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Posts: 928 (08/13/08 7:24 PM) Registered user |
I thought Parvati had an great edit, especially for a winner. We knew her game and we saw it play out beautifully. The negativity came because she was
succeeding and the other players didn't like it (she backstabbed, etc), not because she was a "bitch". Her negativity was to give doubt in the
jury. Jenna had a different edit entirely. I'm not a fan of Parvati at all, but her edit did not reflect what some of you are saying. I *think* it's
just a personality bias.
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chaperone |
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Posts: 2522 (08/15/08 11:23 AM) Registered User |
If I might take a moment to brag... Isaiah is a day old and one good looking dude (he takes after Mrs. Chaperone). 7 lbs 8 oz of pure edgic potential. Sorry
I won't be able to hang with you much this season, but I consider you all to be of a special type of friend...edgic friends...that I wanted to share.
John / Chap 
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OnlyTheHunter |
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Posts: 1583 (08/15/08 12:14 PM) Edgician |
Been out for a while but hey, John. Beautiful! From one daddy to another, congrats!
Michael |
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astroline |
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Posts: 1284 (08/15/08 12:26 PM) Registered user |
That's awesome, chap! Congrats and good luck to all of you guys. =) Hopefully we'll see you around sometimes in here!
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guatemala fanfic |
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Posts: 3680 (08/15/08 12:28 PM) |
Congratulations, chaperone, and welcome to the world to Isaiah! :)
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Oowatanite |
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Posts: 5500 (08/15/08 2:14 PM) Registered User |
Congrats John !!!
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