but if you don't make it, have a great vacation.
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colleenlover |
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Oh god. I hope it's not the end of Colleen.
but if you don't make it, have a great vacation. |
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PJMichaelangelo |
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Hey, Mario, I know you most likely won't finish with the final edit before the road trip, but is there any way you might see fit to post the unfinished
version? Unless you're not finished with the chapter, but if you are then might you see your way to giving us Hawaii addicts a fix? If not, no worries,
and have a great time!
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SenseiKreese |
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Surprise! I might have the final draft up tonight. I have the first 22 pages done already, I just need to type the next 50 pages from paper into my html
editor. It's possible it will even be up tonight. Transcribing 50 pages of changes in 3 hours isn't unheard of.
Oh ye of little faith. :) |
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colleenlover |
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just remember the new and improved ending.
of course, this is probably the best time to plan a quick getaway-er vacation, so you don't have to listen to my bitching. but seriously, have a great trip. |
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SenseiKreese |
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I don't leave until Tuesday. Even if I don't get it up tonight, it will be up tomorrow.
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SenseiKreese |
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Okay episode 11 is done. It's a doozy. And the good news is that it came out pretty close to how I wanted it to. That doesn't happen much.
http://members.aol.com/AllStarHawaii/hawaii.htm |
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PJMichaelangelo |
Two words, Mario... | ||
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Kick. Ass!
This episode rocked about 100 different ways. And the payoff made perfect, logical sense. John was right, there's no way in Hell anyone would ever want to face Colleen in the final TC. And in the end, it all really comes back to Gretchen. Gretchen showed why, as much as she may want to play like a Tagi, she will always be a Pagong. She had the game in checkmate and squandered it. She completely misplayed her hand with Alicia. She knows that she shoudn't share everything with Alicia; hell, she tells Colleen that there's no reason to tell Alicia every detail. But by not hanging back, waiting until the last moment to tell Alicia the gameplan, she gave Alicia a whole day to scrutinize and pick apart the deal. And she shouldn't be surprised that Alicia came to the conclusion she did, because Gretchen had already said to Colleen she was guaranteeing her victory. And Alicia may be a lot of things, but dumb isn't one of them. I loved Vee's comment that Alicia didn't mind coming in fifth, because it's true. Alicia would rather come in fifth playing her game than serve as handmaiden at America's Sweetheart's coronation. Alicia had zero respect for Colleen, and the notion that she would lose to her was unbearable. But here's now where the game gets incredibly interesting. Gretchen's strategic game is over. She's only got one move left to her, and that's to go on an all-out immunity run. And the beautiful thing is, she's one of the few left who can do it. John's got to be shitting himself at this time. Because let's say Gretchen wins the Spoiler. She sits out either John or Alicia, most likely Alicia out of spite. And then she wins immunity. Well, John's all sorts of fucked. Because he just made a final two deal with Alicia that he now has no chance of living up to. Because Tina and Vee are going to stay as a voting bloc, so John might not have any choice but to throw Alicia to the wolves to save his own ass. But if he does that then he knows Alicia will fuck him up with the jury. John's big mistake was letting Vee pick who should go home. CL was right. The money play was to get rid of Gretchen. Because Colleen alone and isolated was easily controllable. She was zero threat to anyone's chances of winning. But they left Gretchen in, and she can definitely stir shit up. To Vee, whoever went wasn't an issue. She could roll with whichever direction they took. But by getting Colleen out, she basically fucked John's game all up. And John's such a paranoid, emotional player that he could never see that in the heat of the moment. That's twice now that John's been manipulated to make a power move he didn't need to make, because let's not forget how he was maneuvered by Vee and Rob into getting rid of Lex. All they had to do was show John that his position with Lex may not be 100% rock solid and he was ready to slit Lex's throat, even when by doing so he gave control of the game at the time to Rob. This time he was in complete control, but Vee was able to get his paranoid mind turning and got him to throw away his checkmate on the game. I think John's chances of winning went from 75% to 5%. And funny enough, Vee's chances went from nil to maybe 20%, because now she's got someone in the game that, if she can carry them to the final two, she has a chance at beating: Alicia. |
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SenseiKreese |
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I love the comparisons Tina made first between John and Rob, and then between John and Lex. That was my favorite thing about this episode. John's ever
changing, mercurial character. As the story goes along, I have been having him pick up characteristics of the other players. Like Vee, he's kind of
turning into a chameleon. Hey look, another comparison!
But seriously, that was my idea for John in the rewrite. Have him start to slow in the story, and then sort of !%!%% into the two players he had wanted to knock off earlier in the story. Rob and Lex. By the end of the story I wanted him to be a bit of a mini Lex. I wanted all his memorable scenes to come towards the end of the story, when the pressure was highest. Because he was really the key to this episode. If I couldn't sell his response to Colleen's betrayal, it wouldn't work. That was one of the main reasons I yanked the working copy. I yanked it because none of the John stuff was even in there yet. And like I said a while back, this was always going to be the double checkmate episode. Gretchen was going to checkmate the Ahis, and the Alicia was going to checkmate Gretchen and (particularly) Colleen. The main problem in the working copy draft is that all the logic wasn't there yet. Once you see it now, in the final draft, I think it all goes down pretty smoothly. I still don't think a single player made any moves that were out of character for them in this episode. I think every single scene pretty much made sense. One important thing I added in the final draft was an extra chat between Vee and Sean where Sean tells her to watch out for Colleen, because she's important to John. This way I could counter CL's arguments earlier that I was turning Vee into a super-player. At least this way, the idea isn't even hers. This time, it sort of takes a third party perspective to even point it out to her. I did this because I wanted to point out that, as always, she has a hard time reading Colleen. I also enjoyed playing the Colleen=Gabriel card. I had been saving that one for a while. Glad you liked the episode. I know CL will think I am saying this just because I have to, but this is easily one of my favorite episodes. There's a lot going on in episode 11. And like you said, it's the perfect episode set up to lead in to the final five. In fact, in many ways it's sort of a bummer I am going on vacation NOW, because the story has a lot of momentum at the moment. The good news is that on a cross country driving trip, one has plenty of time to think about Hawaii and type on one's laptop. There's an awful lot of Nebraska and Wyoming out there. |
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colleenlover |
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Great episode, well written and exciting if not incredibly frustrating.
John and Alicia are morons, but done in a realistic way. personally, what the hell were certain people thinking? Give Tina and Vee the win now. From a story point of view, it will become more clinical for me with Colleen gone (at least in your version- I'm firing up my rewrite right away). But you handled all my notes and criticism expertly -Kathy, check! Colleen, check (you guys are making a dumb mistake); Alicia's reasoning; John being a bad player and emotional one. This in a way was the strategy I thought would work best for Vee and Tina but it was with Alicia leaving over gretchen -in order to keep the huge target in the game -anything to get Tina and Vee to four (because they will force the rock or use it for complete leverage to set themselves up favorably in the final three -well, at least this Tina will- last time she messed up) I really, really hope Alicia or John don't win because this move was dumb -believable now (at least Tina and Vee have his number- and Tina found a way to get Colleen out safely for Tina's game)- but dumb! Alicia is vulnerable, and god I hope she gets egg all over her face.- she had the game- Tina, gone, Vee gone, John probably, Gretchen drops out, Colleen gets roasted, Alicia pockets a million- ego got in the way. John, idiot -sway it to get Gretchen out -and use Colleen and Alicia in final five -both who would have been clinging to his ass. idiot! So I was really excited about the Ahi four dynamics -thought they were all smart and wanted to see the pressure cooker in the endgame. I really liked Vee and Colleen and the little dance they do with one another -this Colleen kinda went down the drain for me the past few episodes (I liked the Defiant One version better) as too whiney and smart, poker face went bust. So I'll do the choose your own adventure one for me and send it your way. I imagine in final five John does try to use Alicia and Colleen to vote out Tina, but Colleen is the one who screws that up and sticks with the Ahi four -getting final four of all Ahis and John's plan a bust). Good episode - from a story point of view, hate that the Colleen component is gone because at one point she was so damn good to read about -you had the emotional and the strategic struggle. So again, it will be more clynical for me as a reader -does that make sense? Next episode, I'll say Alicia or Gretchen is toast -probably Alicia because Tina/Vee don't want John to have any power in final four that doesn't help them. My one question with all this -is why Gretchen was so unwilling to talk to Alicia about the plan -to keep waiting. I would think she and her would be on it and go to Colleen as one and both swear they'll take her to the end just to get that plan to have leverage in working. And still think there should have been a Colleen/Alicia talk about how they would work together if they agreed to the plan -a feeling one another out. Good episode -HATE the ending- but good episode. Now enjoy your vacation. |
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SenseiKreese |
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The reason Gretchen was unwilling to talk to Alicia was because they just have no interpersonal dynamic together. They have been awkwardly dancing around one
another since around episode two. Gretchen really had no idea how she was supposed to explain this to Alicia. As you can see, she had reason to worry.
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colleenlover |
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say it -because Alicia is a moron.
CL: got it. |
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colleenlover |
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Ugh -just read it again. It's really good but it makes me physically ill to my stomach. I hate them all now.
Six friggin years and no Colleen or Kathy in the endgame on the do over? -yeah, thank God for Microsoft word. but really good episode. |
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PJMichaelangelo |
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Alicia IS a moron. Well, moron may be harsh. But she's an emotional player, and so is John, for all his supposed analytical, fanboy persona. That's
why I thought this episode rocked. If either of them could be just a tad bit clinical about the game, they could have used this situation to their advantage.
But instead, they went off firing half-cocked, and it's going to wind up biting them in the ass.
Especially John. Let's say they can get Gretchen out at five. Now he's gotta take a rock. He has no choice, no leverage. It really was another Gabriel incident. He let his paranoia take over, kicking out a non-threat and screwing his game in the process. Man, this episode was filled with China-esque bad moves. Gretchen, Colleen, Alicia, John...hell, the only two people that come off OK are Tina and Vee. And now the two winners are in the power position. And I'm excited to see a super-pissed and motivated Gretchen tear some shit up. |
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colleenlover |
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me too! (but don't tell sensei that) but I'm still doing Choose Your Own Adventure.
Burnett has to be pissed that Colby, Colleen and Kathy are out of the game. I'm pretty sure the person who interviewed Alicia is fired. |
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veeisforvictory |
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Bravo! Vee's getting sloppy at the end revealing so much to Tina, one thing she's good at is holding everything close to the vest but sometimes that is to her detriment so I dunno...Colleen's final plea at the end was touching but she should have seen it coming, I mean she did agree with Gretchen...I don't think she would have been wishy washy because that is what she criticized Kelly W. of being, IMO in real life she would have taken Gretchen's deal and really not played the victim once she was found out...but overall it was great |
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colleenlover |
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I am going to miss Vee and Colleen being each other's foils. That was the most exciting thing to me in the new rewrite. You can have your obvious
Alicia/Gretchen tension -the meat and potatoes was the Vee/Colleen dance.
I still think Tina and Vee needed Colleen as the insurance policy in case one of the other got taken out, since Colleen had been the undeserving "winner" along with them. Now they have to face one another and hope it goes right -of course this is fiction and there's a better chance a previous winner winning, but still. The only hiccup I had was with Colleen going from zero to hero in terms of winning a jury vote -would have made more sense to use John's animosity as leverage to get a Tina/Vee/Colleen final three and constantly villify Colleen. it's a good story, but Colleen was your gold in this thing and things went really exact to tank her. You can always fix it in the third rewrite, though. Reading it again, wow with Alicia -dumbest move ever at this juncture. ugh at All-star Amber being smarter and savier than fan fiction Colleen. happy fourth, everyone. |
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SenseiKreese |
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The Vee and Colleen dance was fun in the original too. The only difference is that this time around, Vecepia won. Last time, Colleen won. Other than that,
it was pretty much the exact same little dance. In fact in the original it ended two full episodes ago, so in this case it actually stuck around longer.
<< Bravo! Vee's getting sloppy at the end revealing so much to Tina, one thing she's good at is holding everything close to the vest but sometimes that is to her detriment so I dunno... >> Yeah but you're reading that scene wrong. The reason I had the whole "Vee drops her guard and spills her guts to Tina" scene isn't because I wanted to show Vee getting sloppy. It was because it alone gave Tina the motivation for going along with the vote for Colleen. If that scene had NOT been in this episode, people would have wondered why Tina went along with the plan. But now that that scene is there, you can understand her logic. She went along with it because Vecepia told her exactly how she plans to get Vee/Tina to the end in the final two. Taking out Colleen wasn't just a Vee/John whim, it was part of Vee's game-long plan to undermine John and strip him of all of his power before they get to the F4 endgame. So with Vee telling all this to Tina on the beach in this episode, it goes from a moment of Tina thinking "Oh shit, why did I suddenly just get backed into a corner, and why am I being forced to vote for Colleen??", to Tina thinking, "Okay Vee, but I sure hope you know what you're doing. I don't like this but I know why you are doing it." In other words, that scene isn't there for Vecepia's storyline, it is there for Tina's. It completes the full circle of why Colleen got voted out. << Colleen's final plea at the end was touching but she should have seen it coming, I mean she did agree with Gretchen...I don't think she would have been wishy washy because that is what she criticized Kelly W. of being, IMO in real life she would have taken Gretchen's deal and really not played the victim once she was found out...but overall it was great >> Colleen isn't playing the victim. I mean, yeah she is to the Ahis, but that's just an act. She knows she got caught. Go back and read her final
words. She's almost laughing. Like Tina said, Colleen got caught with her hand in the cookie jar in this episode, and once that happened she knew she
was toast. John was never going to forgive her. So at that point, once the Ahis knew, she only had one choice. She decided to just lie her butt off.
After all, when you're trapped sometimes all you can do is go for guilt. That's what Colleen was doing. She was lying her ass off and seeing if she
could get them to feel bad for her. The only problem is that they didn't. If Colleen's last minute plea HAD worked, I think even Colleen would have
been amazed. She probably would have called them all idiots.
P.S. I came up with a really nifty storyline for day 34 during my driving time over the past 3 days. I'll be excited to sit down and start writing it when I get back from vacation. Here's a hint. It involves Gretchen and Alicia. It will be a fun one. :) |
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colleenlover |
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Does it involve Gretchen smothering Alicia in her sleep? Because that would be my route.
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colleenlover |
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Sensei, reread the whole series thus far again. I think it's all really tight. My only change -aside from this past episode which we disagree on -is
Colby's voting for Gretchen in episode six. He was planning strategy on how to get the numbers and he and Gretchen thought they could get Tina and
Colleen, respectively. So probably it would be for Kathy over Gretchen. But of course, Gretchen sticks with the women.
I'm reworking your last episode for my own benefit- sorry. I love Tina but she's gone. Alicia works with Colleen, but does tell John it's Tina, as does Colleen. John feels blindsided and now powerless. But then comes around to the fact that Tina going is fine- just a little early. And rationalizes the Colleen nor Alicia will want to take Gretchen or the other to the end. He then starts lying to Vee- which is a nice throw back to his talk with Sean about not screwing over Vecepia. Tina knows something is up but can't quite put her finger on it, is weary that Colleen will vote for Gretchen since Alicia has immunity, but just keeps talking about trust and keeping Ahi together. Vecepia is more dubious and watching John and Colleen like a hawk. Council happens, Tina continues to talk about logic and how no Ahi can win against a Keko and that people should play smart. In the end, four votes against Tina, two votes against Gretchen, with Vee playing conservatively but taking notes. Not earth-shattering but what I feel would be the most practical once Gretchen made that pitch to Colleen and Alicia. But now Alicia is playing quite a bit smarter and is in the cat bird seat to shape her own endgame while John still thinks he has options. I really wanted the Tina/Colleen ethical tension in the last episode again like last time, but dammit you had to have Gretchen make that move. |
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PJMichaelangelo |
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I just reread the whole story again, and I'm still laughing at the two Pagongs trying their damndest to play like Tagis, but they just aren't built for
it. It's like Wile E. Coyote waking up one day and saying, "You know what? Fuck this. I'm tired of getting my ass handed to me by the Road
Runner. Dammit, I wanna be the Road Runner!" But of course, there's no way he can pull it off. Wile E. is destined to be Wile E. Charlie Brown is
destined to have Lucy pull the ball from under him. And Pagongs are destined to be Pagonged.
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