He can't even put very vivid examples.
The opposition presented ideas that made me LIKE THE CURRENT SYSTEM MORE!
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m0t0 maj1 |
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I'm visiting this thread because I want to witness Artiee become the next reduced caffeine.
He can't even put very vivid examples. The opposition presented ideas that made me LIKE THE CURRENT SYSTEM MORE! |
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ArtieeLange |
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doc wrote: "Physical" does not mean "strength", some are balance, puzzles, memory, psychological (knowledge of other players), psych (eating bugs
and shit).
Let those who choose to lose suffer at loser-camp, and try to make an alliance. Let those who choose to compete, win, get rewarded at winner camp, and get immunity, and also try to make alliances.
Way more interesting than now, the show can't even Survive its own time-slot anymore.
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Quiddity |
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Way more interesting than now, the show can't even Survive its own time-slot anymore. Yes, that's why its winning its timeslot every week. |
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phoenixtobootcamp |
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ArtieeLange wrote: Are you saying there are less losers in the world now than in 2000?
16 seasons and as Quiddity pointed out Micronesia still delivered post-merge (and even pre-merge I'd say). Survivor still got it. You just can't expect it to be as strong as its first season no matter how much you change the premise. |
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SFC |
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Well, I guess the one thing good about this idea is that we would have been able to see some CHETOWNAGE!
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VBeauregarde |
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People talk about Micronesia's great post-merge but it's pre-merge was amazing too. Way better than most of the boring ones
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RageBot |
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Err, why do pepole still post in this thread?
Artiee is a troll, a stupid one too, he probably is somewhere around six years old, and doesn't understand the true concept of survivor, or the social game. If no one will post here after this messege, Artiee will probably just go away /= |
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ArtieeLange |
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oh ehm gee wrote:Once you get to individual immunity, the best players will win and the losers will be weeded out, and it is al determined by challenges. The problem, dummy, is that many of those who make it to the merge are already the weakest players. They did this because the first part of the game fosters the gameplay of loser-mob voting out the threats. Again, in the first part of the game, losing challenges is a way the weak mob can vote out their stronger team-mates. (Fail) In the second part of the game, losing challenges can get you voted out. (Fair) |
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Kitty Pryde1 |
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Except a weak mob rarely forms. You've basically picked one or two examples that are completely out of context while neglecting to mention that someone
like James made the merge twice in a row, as did Ozzy, and as did Jason and Erik. And as for China, the only reason there weren't a lot of strong men at
the merge was because there weren't a lot of strong men cast to begin with. Let's look at the recent seasons to see how legitimate your claims are:
Micronesia: The women teamed up because they knew that they couldn't compete against the men, physically. Amanda was still a strong competitor. China: The women and Todd did the same thing in this season. Peih-Gee and Amanda were both strong competitors. Fiji: Boo, Dreamz, and Yau-Man were all physically strong, as was Earl, to an extent. Cook Islands: Adam, Ozzy, and Yul were all alpha males. Exile Island: Aras and Terry were constantly competing against one another to see who was best. Danielle was pretty good too. Guatemala: The women and Rafe banded together to take out threats. Cindy, Steph, and Danni were all strong. Palau: Tom and Ian were extreme alpha males. Vanuatu: The women almost took out all the men. Chris was strong and Eliza/Julie were not bad either. You see, under the current system, the physically strongest players only become targets around the final 11. This is because the strong players want to win immunity, so they want to take out their biggest physical threats, and the weak players know that the strong will do well in front of the jury, so they want them out. All your system would do, would be to make the strongest players targets from day one with absolutely no consequences for voting them out. Under the current system, if you vote a stronger player out over someone like Chet, your tribe is weakened and you have a harder time winning challenges. That's why people tend not to vote out the strong on a whim. And when they do, it causes problems down the line. Your system screws the strong by first making it harder to find allies early on, because they know they'll actively be competing against the people who win the challenges alongside them, and second making it so that if they mess up on a challenge or lose by maybe a split second, they're screwed and they're going to be voted out. Pretty much the only way your system works is if you get rid of the vote entirely and just eliminate whoever does the worst in the challenge, and that's not Survivor anymore. You won't get smart players applying for the show anymore if that happens. |
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doc |
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Give examples that aren't Vanuatu or Micronesia where the strong are kicked out early. Give examples of tribes throwing challenges early to kick out
strong players. I didn't agree with it, but in Cook Islands Billy's team throws the challenge to kick him out and make the team stronger. You keep
your strong early on because if you don't have the numbers going into the merge you have problems. That goes right back to season 1.
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Kitty Pryde1 |
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Yeah, and as I said, tribes that DO throw challenges to boot their strong, or just tribes that boot the strong in general tend to have poor success in
challenges. Ogakor lost three straight immunities after booting a strong guy. Maraamu didn't win a single challenge after booting a strong guy on day 3.
Chuay Ghan lost three of the first four immunity challenges, and probably would've lost more had Sook Jai not gotten disqualified in the Attack Zone
challenge and then thrown immunity, and that was all because they booted a strong guy on day 3. Sook Jai booted their strongest member early and then went on
a losing streak that left them down by two at the merge. Drake booted Burton and then went on to lose the next three immunity challenges. Mogo Mogo booted
Richard, Colby, and Ethan, and after Richard, they couldn't win a single challenge. Ulong voted out Jolanda first and Jeff third and after that, they
couldn't win a single challenge. New Yaxha voted out Blake, which could've caused their tribe to perform poorly in the next few challenges. Hiki
booted Sekou and almost lost immunity to a tribe that was throwing the challenge. Raro booted JP and didn't have the strength needed later on in the game.
Zhan Hu booted Chicken and Ashley and didn't have the physical strength to keep up with Fei Long. New Malakal booted Joel and didn't have the
strength to compete with New Airai.
So stop acting like people just boot the strong players early on and there's no consequences for it. Booting the strong under the current system means you risk weakening your tribe and being sent back to tribal council more and more, weaking you further. The strong only get booted after the merge under the current system because at that point, the game becomes individual and you don't need them to win challenges anymore. The only reason strong players get far is because they were able to form bonds and alliances on their initial tribes, which is something less likely to occur under your system, Artiee. |
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nhagelin1026 |
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What I think Artiee fails to comprehend is that being physically strong DOES NOT make you the best player. Erik, Ozzy, James, and Jason were all physically
strong, but were all fucking stupid. Survivor is not just about physical strength; if anything physical strength takes the backburner compared to strategy.
Parvati, Cirie, Amanda, etc...they all made it far becuase they had STRATEGIES! (Parvati and Cirie more so than Amanda, but you know what i mean...)
Tracy, Chet, and Kathy may have been physically weak, but in my opinion they were 3 of the most entertaining pre-merge. Artiee's idea of entertainment would most likely completely ruin the show. He cites slumping ratings....well dude, there's more on TV nowadays. It's bound to happen. 12-13 million a week is still pretty damn good. |
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rolandofthewhite |
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People who think that "strong competitor = good player" are completely delusional.
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ArtieeLange |
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Kitty Pryde1 wrote: You seem to have a knowledge of the past seasons players, but can you name the first 3 or 4 players voted off in every season? Of course not. And you can't know if they are worthy competitors or not, because they are voted out before they could compete and prove themselves.
Why? Because the initial grouping (ie losers) see them as an initial threat. This process continues through the team-portion of the game.
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SW5SkittlesBrownfield |
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ArtieeLange wrote:
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SFC |
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ArtieeLange wrote: 1.) S1: Sonja, B.B. Stacey, Ramona
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doc |
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Let's look at China, since it's fresh in our minds, and probably has the strongest 4 of any season.
Chicken's a weird old guy, starts by speaking his mind, then realizes it might not be a good idea to be vocal, and goes completely in the opposite direction. He's asked what he thinks about something, says "I don't care. I'll just do whatever you want me to do." Never fit in. Ashley and Dave hated each other. She was sick and weak. Leslie got along too well with the other tribe. She told them everything when she got kidnapped. They thought she might switch. Also, she tells Todd about the HII, so he thinks the less people know about it the better. I thought Courtney should have gone because she couldn't even swing a sword, but Leslie's gone instead. Dave had trouble getting along with everyone, and he was kinda losing it. They didn't even see how he acted when he got kidnapped. But they saw how it was good when he wasn't around, so he's gone. Also remember at that point, there really is no deadwood to get rid of. So there's 4 people gone, 4 possibly strong players, but they were gone mostly for social reasons or to make the team stronger. Or harmonious. There was never any talk about getting rid of them because they'll do too well after the merge. And no thrown challenges. Come on, show examples supporting your claims. |
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SFC |
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doc wrote: He can't, he knows his idea Fails, making examples would only hurt his case. |
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TW After Life |
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ArtieeLange wrote: The problem with you is that you oversimplify the game. You think everyone voted out pre-merge was voted out as a threat. Was Chicken a threat? Was Leslie? How about Jessica DeBen? Was Rita a threat? Really? The game is more complex than you think it is. You have a very superficial understanding of Survivor, and I'm thinking you just want to dumb it down to
your level so you can predict an Ozzy or a James as the winner in the first episode and then feel smart.
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Spanky Hot Dog |
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Just do a challenge every now and then throughout the season in which the 2 people that do the worst are automatically eliminated.
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