The final 6 in Vanuatu was filled entirely with amazing players. But yeah, Palau sucked.
| Started By | Comment | ||
|---|---|---|---|
 Kitty Pryde1 |
|||
|
Posts: 4153 (05/15/08 4:50 PM) |
|
||
 Micronesia Princess |
|||
|
Posts: 118 (05/15/08 5:10 PM) |
Jenn didn't even do anything
|
||
|
daggers44 |
|||
|
Posts: 470 (05/15/08 5:15 PM) Registered user |
Dictatorship wrote: Idiot. Earl won unanimously. He deserves some credit for that, and for dragging two dumb asses with him to the end.
|
||
|
GretchenIsMyGod |
|||
|
Posts: 3103 (05/15/08 5:17 PM) Registered User |
Doing the best with what you have - that's how I determine who I think played well. Based on that, I think the really strong players are ...
Sonja: Yep - look at that 4-3-1 vote - she did well for a boot that on paper was pretty obvious. She was in the very first alliance and a victim of the very first betrayal. 
Gretchen: I know, I know. It's not that she didn't understand the game - it's that she didn't understand what the game would come to be. Remember when there was serious speculation that alliances would be against the rules in the second season?). But the fact that all of Pagong was willing to go to the end and lose to Gretchen impresses me. 
Greg: According to most of Pagong in retrospect, Greg was slyly manipulating everyone. 
Colleen: She really was Pagong's rallying force in fighting against the Tagi Alliance, and her and Kelly pioneered the under-the-radar strategy. 
Richard Hatch: Well, duh. 
Jeff Varner: Often overlooked, but when I look for game on Kucha, I see it in Varner. From trying to keep pre-merge votes on Rodger while staying in the majority to recognizing Tina's strength to pushing Kimmi v. Alicia to an actual confrontation, Varner was cagey as hell. 
Colby: Fuck that "mistake" - Colby knew what moves he was making and why, and for being on such a HUGE MEDIA SENSATION!!!!, Colby made the right move to ride the publicity waves post-game. 
Tina: Hatch saw it while Outback was airing, but not many did until she was nearing the finals. She actually did the first, "Wait a second, I'm first in my alliance, let me flip it," successfully and early enough to count, way before Kathy ever did. 
Kelly Goldsmith: Yeah, jump sides when you need to! Explore your options! 
Brandon Quinton: Actually leveled the playing field by playing to Lex's paranoia. Don't believe his piss-poor edit just to make Kim Powers look likeable. 
Teresa Cooper: She really was working all the angles ... except getting Kim Powers and Brandon to vote together. 
Ethan Zohn: I actually came to like his game more in All-Stars. 
Boston Rob: A total schmuck, but a great liar. 
Kathy Vavrick-O'Brien: Really good at the, "This is in BOTH of our best interests," game. 
Vecepia: It's like if Rob Cesternino didn't try so hard to be liked. 
Tanya: Except no one got a chance to see her play ... 
Brian Heidik: But really fucking creepy. 
Rob Cesternino: I bet he's mad "The Best Player to Never Win" magically transferred to Rupert, far less deserving of the title. 
Jenna Morasca: Not particularly revolutionary, but cliquishly intelligent. 
Jon Dalton: "Wait ... why are they keeping Jon when they know how big of a liar he is? Wait ... why did they just do it again?!" 
Lillian: One few will agree with me on, and a great example of how I think a good player can just naturally be one through traits natural to them (Gretchen, Stephenie). Seeing how Andrew actually preferred to keep Lillian over Darrah but was vetoed by Ryan O., seeing her completely dominate by saying, "Hey guys, take the lead and I'll follow," and seeing her with her eyes ALWAYS on the final tribal council, making sure she's placed correctly to get there, and changing things if not. I don't care if she was being serious or not when she asked Jon and Burton to dumb it down and just tell her what to do - it makes for someone you really want to keep around. 
Sandra: "As long as it isn't me." So simple, yet so effective in the post-Vee/Cesternino age of Survivor. 
Ami: Watching her swing the Dolly vote her way, straddle the young and old players of Yasur so effectively, and then take out Lisa in such a scary way left me mesmerized. 
Eliza: She's just so damned wiley. 
Chris Daugherty: He laid it on so thick. So thick! I think he's a transparent blow-hard, but nobody out there seemed to. 
Stephenie: Well she's great at commanding respect, even if she falters elsewhere. 
Jenn: Nothing for so long, then, "Ohhh, I thought you knew." And wham, she's maneuvered herself from 1 against 3 to 2 against 4. Post-game interviews really show how smart she is. 
Tom Westman: Watching him bully Ian left me queasy, but he sure knows how to strongarm himself a win. 
Rafe: Great perfection of the Ethan strategy. 
Danni: "Wait, who's that cute girl, and how did she get to the finals?" 
Cirie: WOW this woman can get people to do what she wants, even when it's obviously not in their interest. WOW. 
Yul: Even without the immunity idol, just simple diplomacy and honesty worked so well here. "This is in both of our best interests." Indeed it is, Yul, indeed it is ... 
Yau-Man: One of the more innovative players since the Amazon. 
Earl: All-around ... *yawn* ... good ... player ... 
Todd: God there are a lot of ... 
Tracy: ... survivors. "Moo." |
||
|
TheRoundPeg |
|||
|
Posts: 363 (05/15/08 5:18 PM) Registered user |
I personally think the exclusion of Yul and Earl on any "best" list instantly makes that list invalid.
Anyone who thinks Yul AND Earl did not deserve to win is likely a racist, as Yul is Asian and Earl is black. Of course, I'm sure she'll come up with some excuses to deny and rationalize.
Last Edited By: TheRoundPeg
05/15/08 5:25 PM.
Edited 1 times.
|
||
|
Kitty Pryde1 |
|||
|
Posts: 4156 (05/15/08 5:23 PM) |
Julie, Scout, Twila, and Parvati really need to be on that list, GIMG.
|
||
|
GretchenIsMyGod |
|||
|
Posts: 3105 (05/15/08 5:26 PM) Registered User |
Yeah, if Jenna Morasca is on I should put Parvati and Julie on, but .. I got lazy. There are 16 seasons, ya know!
Scout and Twila ... maybe. It's not a definitive list of who I think the best players are. It's just me brainstorming good playing - with pictures! I like the Pearl Islands because I think the 4 smartest games played that season were in the final 4, in the proper order as their finishing places. |
||
|
ShanesThinkingSeat |
|||
|
Posts: 341 (05/15/08 6:15 PM) |
CSCin3D wrote: Do you remember Ken's jury question to Brian? He insinuated that Brian had made a racist comment about Ted, when Brian was explaining to him that Ted
had to go. It was Helen and Ted who were involved in Racegate with whatever comment Clay made. Personally, I feel Brian did make a racially insensitive remark,
while Helen made up some bullshit about Clay, then lied to cover her tracks, failing to say what the comment was. That's besides the point, though.
|
||
|
astroline |
|||
|
Posts: 1182 (05/15/08 6:44 PM) Registered user |
I don't have enough patience or recollection of strategy from everyone to do a top 20 (and I haven't seen Amazon, ASS or Guatemala), but if I had to do
a top 5, it'd probably look like this...
1. Tom (Palau) 2. Cirie (Exile Island) 3. Rich (Borneo) 4. Julie (Vanuatu) 5. Brian (Thailand) Close behind would be Parvati, Tina and Earl... |
||
|
Pulau Tiga |
|||
|
Posts: 4142 (05/15/08 6:55 PM) Registered user |
GretchenIsMyGod wrote:The vote was 4-3-1 because Stacey was riding on women power. Sonja was approached for the alliance, and reluctantly agreed to take part in it, thanks to Rudy alienating other members of his tribe. Sonja didn't save herself, Stacey (almost) did. And if Sonja was aware of the social dynamics of her group, she would have seen that allying with Stacey was bound to end up going down in flames anyway. Jeff Varner: Often overlooked, but when I look for game on Kucha, I see it in Varner. From trying to keep pre-merge votes on Rodger while staying in the majority to recognizing Tina's strength to pushing Kimmi v. Alicia to an actual confrontation, Varner was cagey as hell.Jeff was clever, but I have a problem with some of the moves you attribute to him. He may have tried to get votes thrown to Rodger, but Rodger likewise tried to get votes thrown to Jeff, and unlike Jeff, Rodger actually pulled that off, ensuring that the Christian Coalition of Kucha would have the edge in the event of a 3-3 vote later on down the road. Also, Jeff didn't stay in the majority. Another TC and he would have been screwed, because even if he had gotten Nick on his side (with Alicia's help), he would have lost out in in the tie vote. Eliza: She's just so damned wiley.She's also got a terrible social game. I love Eliza just as much as anyone else, but she's just not really cut out for this game. |
||
|
Quiddity |
|||
|
Posts: 2522 (05/15/08 7:24 PM) Registered User |
Did I ever mention how much Yuku sucks? How accidently hitting 'back' deletes my entire post, forcing me to write it all over again? Sigh.
yeah, I don't know enough about the behind the scenes stuff-maybe there aren't any trully outstanding players from those seasons. Palau I remember just thinking everyone was terrible until Jenn convinced Tom to cause the tie and was cool as a cucumber while doing it. Julie I thought was pretty darn slick. -but in general I can't really think of any fantastic players. For people like you who don't remember how things really went down, lets recap. Ian plotted to get Tom out at F4. Tom wins immunity. Ian screws up and tells Tom that he'd have a difficult choice to make if Tom didn't have immunity. Tom realizes Ian was gonna betray him. Ian continues to fumble with everything he says. Tom votes for Ian because of that. If Ian doesn't say those stupid things he said, Jenn goes home 3-1. Her impact on Tom's vote in that scenario was a whopping ZERO percent. And to clear up any misunderstandings, I was only  at Jenn & Scout, and must have screwed up on the typing, did not mean the others.
Jeff Varner: Often overlooked, but when I look for game on Kucha, I see it in Varner. From trying to keep pre-merge votes on Rodger while staying in the majority to recognizing Tina's strength to pushing Kimmi v. Alicia to an actual confrontation, Varner was cagey as hell. He sure did a great job! 0 votes Rodger. 2 votes Jeff. Bye bye Kucha.
You have a new name now, Ravu? J/K. I remember you. Both Earl and Yul did tremendous jobs, and when you're talking about the skill in which they played in the game, both are definately worthy of inclusion on the top 20 list. Obviously the only question that will forever linger with Yul is the fact that he had an absurd advantage that 18 other players that season did not even get an opportunity to obtain, and it saved him from the ninth place finish he would have had otherwise.
Last Edited By: Quiddity
05/15/08 7:26 PM.
Edited 1 times.
|
||
|
MghtyMouse33 |
|||
|
Posts: 10 (05/15/08 7:51 PM) |
Kitty Pryde1 wrote:I don't agree, Amanda seemed to make joint decisions with Todd on strategy and seemed to change his mind a couple of times, such as when she convinced him to vote out Sherea instead of Jean-Robert. Her problem was that the jury didn't get to see that, which is why she needed to work extra hard to give a good jury performance, and she fell short. astroline wrote:I've seen Julie alot in people's lists, but why is she deserving of being in the top five? I agree she played well, but I wouldn't even put her in my top 30. |
||
|
PJMichaelangelo |
|||
|
Posts: 92 (05/15/08 10:24 PM) Registered user |
Todd - IMO, the worst winner of all time. In 99% of the seasons, Todd wouldn't have sniffed the merge. Look at Mikey B. in Micronesia. He was Todd Pt.
Deux, and his ass got bounced before Chet! Todd overplayed the game and the only thing that saved him was a cast with the collective IQ of his shoe size. Do
we have time to count the blunders from China that led to Todd Herzog joining the ranks of Richard Hatch, Brian Hedik, Chris Daugherty, and Yul Kwon?
1) Leslie gives Todd her clue about where the HII is hidden. 2) Dave gives Todd his clue about where the HII is hidden. 3) Zhan Hu inexplicably abandons their plans to throw immunity, allowing Fei Long to go into the merge with numbers and two HIIs. (Yes, I know that if they'd thrown the challenge James would have played one of the HIIs and most likely Jaime would have gone home. But they didn't know about James having the HIIs, plus if they'd done what they planned they would have forced James to burn one. There's still no good reason that they didn't do this.) 4) James somehow never figured he needed to play one of his HIIs with only 3 TC's left where he could play them and gets blindsided. 4a) If James had played one of the HIIs, Todd still would have been possibly saved because Erik, for no discernible reason, voted that TC for James instead of Todd. Had James played one of the HIIs, this would have caused a tie between Todd and Peih-Gee, and most likely PG would have left in a revote. 5) Denise the Fake Lunch Lady decides, instead of joining up with Amanda and PG to get rid of Todd, to stay with her alliance of four (in which she knew 100% she was fourth). This strategy was last attempted by Caryn Groedel in Palau, and it worked for Denise about as well as it did for Caryn. 6) Finally, Amanda gives the single worst jury performance in Survivor history and snatches defeat from the jaws of victory, getting less votes than even Courtney! There's at least a dozen non-winners I'd rank ahead of Todd. I'm not sure he'd crack my top 30, let alone my top 20. |
||
|
gretchensucks |
|||
|
Posts: 513 (05/16/08 2:53 AM) |
All of the Vicepia respect here makes me confused. She sucked and got VERY lucky. She's no Sandra or Cirie.
|
||
|
Dictatorship |
|||
|
Posts: 2613 (05/16/08 6:46 AM) Crying my eyes out and
|
You can't say Vecepia sucked, and one sentence later say that Sandra was great.
|
||
|
Bobby Jon goes apeshit |
|||
|
Posts: 1264 (05/16/08 7:55 AM) |
Jon Dalton controlled almost the entire post-merge of Pearl Islands aka the most chaotic post-merge game EVER. He told the single greatest lie ever (which he
then brilliantly used to convince his greatest enemies to vote with him) He, in one of the most impressive moves in Survivor history escaped certain death at
the final four.
Jon Dalton positioned himself better in the final 3 than any of the "best players to never win" I think. He was going up against two weak women who he should have no problem beating. Sure, Lill turned out to be a major badass in the final immunity challenge. Big deal. Logically speaking, Jon still had a guaranteed spot in the final 2. Logically, Lill would've taken Jon with her to the final two. and Jon would've won. However...Lill soon realized she wasn't choosing a final two partner. She was choosing a winner. And since Lill was appalled by Jon's lifestyle (or something to that effect) she decided shed rather see Sandra win. And so Lill made a non-logical decision gameplay-wise and voted Jon out. And thus, the era of "Jonny Fairplay" was over. But it was a great era. And you're telling me this man is NOT one of the the Top 20 Survivor players of all time, yet AMANDA is? Thats bollocks. |
||
|
SGD |
|||
|
Posts: 6 (05/16/08 4:10 PM) |
Thailandsurvivor wrote: wow moron much?
|
||
|
MghtyMouse33 |
|||
|
Posts: 11 (05/16/08 5:03 PM) |
Bobby Jon goes apeshit wrote:Jon is definitely in the top 25 players of all time, but I put him lower on the list because of his poor social game, similar to Boston Rob. I'm not actually sure he would've even won against Lill, and if he did, it would have been close (Ryno and Burton would've definitely voted for him, but Rupert, Sandra, and probably Tijuana and Christa would've voted Lill). Because so many people hated Jon so immensely, and players like Rob Cesternino and Cirie played just as good and manipulative of a game without being disliked so much, I feel that he should be ranked quite a bit lower. I also feel that Amanda is a better player than him in that she played a much better social game, and that I highly doubt he would have the physical perseverance to last 39 days back-to-back, winning the final two immunity challenges despite being completely emotionally run-down. |
||
|
Thailandsurvivor |
|||
|
Posts: 733 (05/16/08 5:19 PM) |
SGD wrote: How does that make me a moron? Anyone with such a piss poor social game who can only rely on challenges doesn't deserve to be anywhere near a best player of all time list. He's a worse version of Darrah. And Fairplay actually had a great social game. Yeah, he wasn't in the top alliance in Drake after Burton's stupid move, but he was able to save himself ONE DAY after trying to vote Rupert out. Who was tightly allied with the two who controlled Drake, Sandra and Christa. People only hated him after he blindsided them and watching the show, which is more of people being bitter than a bad social game. |
||
|
mtj1282 |
|||
|
Posts: 1135 (05/17/08 7:00 PM) |
Kitty Pryde1 wrote: You make no sense. You said that amanda shouldnt be on the list, yet you think people that didnt make it to the end of the game , nevermind twice, should be? Are you sure you even watch the show cause you dont seem to knowledgable about it? |
||
- Survivor Suck-ups
- Lions, Tigers, Survivors - Oh My!
- Survivor Spoilers
- MESS Hall Tribal Council
- FOB
- Survivor Speculation
- Survivor 17+
- MESS Hall Archive: S2-S6
- MESS Hall Archive: S7-S9
- Spoiler Attic
- The Amazing Race
- Big Brother
- Big Brother - PAST SEASONS
- The Apprentice
- American Idol
- American Idol PAST SEASONS
- The Mole
- Lost
- Other Shows That Suck
- Off Topic
- Clubs That Suck. No, Really.
- The Dump
- Monster Island
- Purgatory
- FAQ
- In Memory, 9/11/01
