Off-Season Edgic Discussion

Re: Off-Season Edgic Discussion

feeds@yuku.com (Green Coffee) — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 18:43:54 GMT

chaperone wrote:
I always felt that a notable (but not huge) weakness in our computation was that one N vote with 1 P vote avg'd to neutral. Three responses: First: The addition of a mixed tone makes this phenomenon less of an issue as (though not mathematically) because when you see a handful of N votes and a handful of P votes it's pretty clear that it should be mixed neutral.

Second: Those P and N...

Re: Off-Season Edgic Discussion

feeds@yuku.com (Dyke Cruser) — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:53:24 GMT

I'm an old-school edgicist and this whole talk of "M" downright SICKENS me. You're bastardizing a once great institution which successfully predicted Earl as the winner of Survivor Fiji.

Re: Off-Season Edgic Discussion

feeds@yuku.com (chaperone) — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:03:25 GMT

I always felt that a notable (but not huge) weakness in our computation was that one N vote with 1 P vote avg'd to neutral. Three responses: First: The addition of a mixed tone makes this phenomenon less of an issue as (though not mathematically) because when you see a handful of N votes and a handful of P votes it's pretty clear that it should be mixed neutral.

Second: Those P and N votes averaging to 0 (neutral) actually does in some ways line up to exactly what the...

Re: Off-Season Edgic Discussion

feeds@yuku.com (TheLurkerSpeaks) — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 09:41:35 GMT

Math is overrated!

Well, at least it is with respect to Edgic. Some of what has been developed is highly suspect (MOR differential), and most of the rest is unnecessary. Do we really need a chart to tell us who has been on the extremes of tone or visibility?

A confession - I never look back at past results. Partly, that's because I don't really trust the consensus ratings (especially as moral relativism continues to creep in and make all tones neutral), but...

Re: Off-Season Edgic Discussion

feeds@yuku.com (OnlyTheHunter) — Sat, 14 Jun 2008 23:39:32 GMT

The problem has always been the math - NN=-2 N=-1 neutral=0 P=1 PP=2

Mixed equals out to zero

But I do think that it should be aligned and easier to pick Mixed from a main lineup. However, if no one takes over for chaperone (I can't do what he does or I'd volunteer) the voting site goes away and hand tallies come back and it'll read the way you infer anyway, if anyone really takes the time for habd tallies. We took chaperone for granted, and I fear...

Re: Off-Season Edgic Discussion

feeds@yuku.com (Kitty Pryde1) — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 23:52:18 GMT

One thing I think needs changing is the idea that neutral and M be grouped together when it comes to tallying for close calls. Neutral means no tone whatsoever, while M means both tones, so they're about as far apart as possible, and it just creates unnecessary close calls in tone most of the time.

Re: Off-Season Edgic Discussion

feeds@yuku.com (SeacrestFan) — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 23:29:16 GMT

Less people viewed the Fiji edgic thread because the editors gave us the winner in the first 10 minutes of episode 1.

Re: Off-Season Edgic Discussion

feeds@yuku.com (Green Coffee) — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 18:59:07 GMT

SFC wrote:
Just a tiny little idea.

If someone is ever 100% Edgically Eliminated on the voting site they get taken off the selectable winners for the rest of the season

I agree with this sentiment. I'd also take it to an individual level and say anyone officially eliminated by an Edgic participant during the season is off the table for that person's "official winner pick." If...

Re: Off-Season Edgic Discussion

feeds@yuku.com (SFC) — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 00:16:46 GMT

Just a tiny little idea.

If someone is ever 100% Edgically Eliminated on the voting site they get taken off the selectable winners for the rest of the season

Re: Off-Season Edgic Discussion

feeds@yuku.com (Oowatanite) — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 14:33:44 GMT

Francois40 wrote:
But sometimes, someone is simply a "caricature" without a + or - spin. How would you rate Wanda's short time, for example? She seems the quintessence of OTT, but is it P? N?

She was annoying as hell but you felt sorry for her when she left.

OTTM

( Oo hides from...

Re: Off-Season Edgic Discussion

feeds@yuku.com (Francois40) — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 12:03:56 GMT

I would argue that OTT (static) is not possible - it has to be OTTM, OTTP or OTTN.

But sometimes, someone is simply a "caricature" without a + or - spin. How would you rate Wanda's short time, for example? She seems the quintessence of OTT, but is it P? N?

I applaud Green Coffee's observations; I will make comments soon, but without question, I think the "known pair" guideline must go. And, since certain episodes (#1,...

Re: Off-Season Edgic Discussion

feeds@yuku.com (TheLurkerSpeaks) — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 11:09:45 GMT
But the combination is by definition not one note - that's the whole point. He wasn't portrayed as just obnoxious or just as sympathetic due to being homeless. It was a more well rounded portrayal.

Re: Off-Season Edgic Discussion

feeds@yuku.com (Kitty Pryde1) — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 20:46:49 GMT
I think OTTM is appropriate. I mean, Dreamz is a perfect example. In the first episode, he was shown as being annoying from talking to much (N), but he was also portrayed as the lovable homeless guy (P). Neither of these were anything more than one-note portrayals, so OTTM fits.

Re: Off-Season Edgic Discussion

feeds@yuku.com (TheLurkerSpeaks) — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 15:32:35 GMT
Personally, I have always understood the OTT designation of "over the top" to refer to tone. These are hero and villain edits, and thus I've always seen OTTM and OTT neutral as inappropriate. That's also why I think PP and NN are redundant since the presence of OTT already implies strongly positive or strongly negative.

I do have some sympathy for the position that there is a third caricature, namely the clown (or comic relief), which would technically be OTT...

Re: Off-Season Edgic Discussion

feeds@yuku.com (OnlyTheHunter) — Tue, 27 May 2008 12:47:05 GMT
The Mixed rating changed the OTT arguement about tone. janu got an OTT5 in her boot ep, as she went from wildly happy to sad quitter in one episode. Today, that would be mixed. I'm still not 100% sold that you have to have Tone with an OTT rating, but with Mixed in the mix, it's rare when it wouldn't occur so it's not really important.

It's the OTT definition that's wrong, as it mentions tone for no reason.

OTT is more noteworthy for a one...

Re: Off-Season Edgic Discussion

feeds@yuku.com (Oowatanite) — Mon, 26 May 2008 15:14:39 GMT

Visibility Measures the amount of presence that a player had in an episode. Visibility includes confessionals, speaking time, face time, second person visibility and tribal council questions (TCQ).

Is it possible to find a way to include face time and SPV into the standard calculation of visibility done by Warrior? If they are part of visibility, they...

Re: Off-Season Edgic Discussion

feeds@yuku.com (Green Coffee) — Fri, 23 May 2008 15:04:33 GMT

Oowatanite wrote:

I agree that there are much too many needless arguments about tone. That is why I've suggested using the "Tone Committee" to decide on the final tone ratings each episode. But the PP and NN can stay. They are not used that often but are correct ratings for eps like Jonathan's evacuation and Nat's uber-bitch rants.

Yeah I would agree that if 5 experts...

Re: Off-Season Edgic Discussion

feeds@yuku.com (Oowatanite) — Fri, 23 May 2008 11:10:13 GMT

Green Coffee wrote:

Tone

PP) Extremely positive.
P) Positive.
No rating Static neutral
M) Dynamic Mixed neutral - If you think someone was noticeably P AND N within one episode.
N) Negative.
NN) Extremely negative....

Re: Off-Season Edgic Discussion

feeds@yuku.com (SFC) — Thu, 22 May 2008 22:56:22 GMT
Some Trends I've Noticed:
- Winners are very unlikely to get a tone in any UTR episodes (P or N)
- A Winner will not have an OTT in the first Episode
- Winners as of recently will have a bad Episode 12/13 to add doubt.
Good ratings in those Episodes don't bode well for winner chances.
- As stated before, strong EP1 and merge episodes are key in finding out the winner.

Re: Off-Season Edgic Discussion

feeds@yuku.com (Green Coffee) — Thu, 22 May 2008 20:55:21 GMT

2. Discuss (a) dumping the tone ratings or (b) selecting a committee of maybe five veteran objective edgicians to decide on the tone ratings for each episode, after some "spirited" discussion in this thread by ALL participants. This will prevent "fandom" from continuing to overshadow tone ratings. I would suggest OTH, TLS, flf, Warrior, etc.

I strongly support this, as an Edgic viewer. In fact, I really think the guidelines for what...

Off-Season Edgic Discussion

feeds@yuku.com (Oowatanite) — Wed, 23 May 2007 12:07:56 GMT
1. What is your choice as the best season of Edgic and why?

In my opinion, the best season of Edgic was Palau. It was the season where Edgic really hit its stride. We still had stalwarts like KQ and RW participating. We even had Survivor favourite Eliza's insights and ratings. It was the first year that we used player watchdogs. The thread was busy and alive with quality posts and discussion. It was the best thread on this board.

2. What has...